180 Gallon Plumbing Ideas

[07FocusST]

I am just looking for inputs on how to plumb my 180G when it comes time. I have a PCX-40 (1140gph) for the closed loop and will be looking at either a Mag 12 or 18 for a Return Pump.

In the included pictures is the tank. Please not that the tank is sitting on its right hand side. So when you look at what is the top in the picture is actually the left hand side.

To keep this simple we will use a numbering system as a reference. Starting at the top left hole in the picture. The first hole will be #1 the next hole to the immediate right is #2. Directly below number 1 is #3 and so on. The larger white bulkheads are drains and are not included in this thread. So basically is looks like this as this picture sits.

#1 #2


#3 #4


#5

I came to the conclusion that the external closed loop pump will use a SWCD for a wavemaker. The Return Mag Pump will not have any wavemaking device.

So here is my idea:

#1. Closed Loop/WaveMaker Return (Left Side)
#2. Utilize as Drain for water changes
#3.Mag Pump/Sump Return
#4.Mag Pump/Sump Return
#5.Closed Loop/Wavemaker Return (Right Side)

Hopefully I made this clear enough and easy enough to understand. All bulkheads are 1". Most likely I will end up plumbing the system and find something I don't like or something I would like better. I am just looking for alternate opinions and suggestions.

Here is the top in case anyone want to see.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok so are the two holes that have bulkheads in them 1 inch to?? also what do you have for drain holes in the overflow

Mojo

 

[mcoomer]

Personally, I'd drill hole number 6 in the opposite corner of 2 and then I'd plumb 1, 2, 5, and 6 with an Ocean Motion 4-way and a massive pump for your closed loop. Hole 3 for a sump return looks good but I'd be very leery of using hole 4 as a return line. If you have a power outage and that line doesn't break siphon you're going to have a big mess on your hands. I wouldn't rely on siphon breaks or a check valve either. A return line that sits that low in the tank is an accident waiting to happen.

Mike

 

[07FocusST]

Mojo: If you are refering to the drains (white bulkheads) then yes they are 1". As for overflows they are 1" side by side but in seperate chambers.

MCoomer: I've got to figure out that back-flow problem. Good catch.

 

[07FocusST]

Here is the new idea:

#1. Sump/MAG18 Return
#2. Utilize as Drain line for water changes
#3. Closed Loop/PCX-40 Wavemaker
#4. Closed Loop/PCX-40 Wavemaker
#5. Sump/MAG18 Return

This way Holes #1 & #5 are at the top of the tank which will restrict the amount of water backflow to the sump itself. I will end up using a "Y" fitting on holes #3 & #4 for the wavemaker and split the flow direction. I like the idea of having hole #2 as a drain point for water changes.

 

[mojoreef]

LOL ok I found ya.

Ok here is some thoughts prior to coming up with a plan. Hole number 2 and 4 I dont like, they sit to low in the tank (for anything) one thing you must think of always is "What If" So if something goes wrong with the plumbing in regards to these two holes I am going to need to do some work on them, what do I have to do. All the answers to those situation regarding these two holes are crappy options. So I would Strongly suggest just doing away with them, as in gluing acrylic front and back or bulkhead and plug.

On the sump return and drain. the two 1 inch holes will handle about 1200 gph, so runnning the 1800 mag should be fine after headloss is taken into play. Although I dont like mags as they heat up the water to much (when I used them they cost me 1 to 2 degrees).
Anyway so we know the water is going to drain through the overflows so lets call that raw water out. SO if raw water going out is one one side of the tank, we want processed water coming in on the other side, right?? So I think the returns should be hole number 1 and then drill another a foot over from it.

On the closed loop I would say to use the two holes that have bulkheads in them as the input into the pump. and then holes 3 and 5 for the CL returns, remember you can use lockline inside the tank to direct the flow or even branch it inside the tank.

Anyway just a rough idea on the thoughts behind the concept. Let me know.

Mojo

 

[mcoomer]

Are you going to use powerheads in the tank too? The reason I ask is that the PCX-40 is about a 1200gph pump. With your Mag 18 pushing another 1200gph at 6' that give you about 2400gph. If you're keeping softies or fish only that will do but if you're looking to keep SPS you're going to want to move more like 5400 to 7200gph (30X to 40X tank volume). Stony corals generally need lots of flow to be happy. Just another thing to keep in mind.

Mike

 

[07FocusST]

Yea I am still in the "Lets get this thing up and running" mindstate. I didn't even consider SPS flow rate. So should I get a higher GPH Closed Loop pump in place of the PCX-40? If so then what GPH should I be looking at? Also to reach a flow rate of 5400GPH I would need 9x 1" drains/overflows. Seems like a little too excessive!? Is this what I really need to be looking at? At that point the back of the tank would like like swiss cheese.

I plan on using my Sump as a Fuge also. I plan on running atleast 2x 7" sock filters and skimmer in one chamber. A fuge in the next and then return pump. So is a MAG 18 going to be a little overkill? It sounds to me like I will be dialing it back alot to create a calm enough environment for Pods to grow.

I am still considering using my 100 Gallon tank as my Sump/Fuge. Although I do have a 40"x12"x16" acrylic sump (roughly 33G's) I could use instead. Both wont fit in the stand together. I am torn between have the extra capacity of the 100G vs the 33G sump and having extra room in the stand for other equipment.

 

[Krish]

That's a big tank!! When I did my closed loop on my 38gal, I had 2 drains and 4 outputs. Two up top and two down low each of which had a "Y" adaptor on each. So in a nut shell I had basically 8 nozzles that could be individually adjusted. As Mike suggested, the lockline will help you adjust and fine tune your flow. In addition to that, I had my return pump that I used simply for surface aggitation. If you were to use one of those bulkheads for your return, be careful. You will need to keep the water level at a reasonable height and have a hole drilled in the output nozzle to break the siphon when your return pump is turned off. This is why my returns always sat above the water level. If it sits below, when the return is shut off, water will back flow into the sump until either the nozzle head is exposed to air to break the siphon or the hole you would drill in the nozzle does the same. So too low of a bulkhead for return and too high of a water level could potentially overflow your sump so keep that in mind. Here is a picture of what my 38 gal looked from the front side to give you an idea of what I am talking about. You can see the 2 outputs from the closed loop up top (split in two) which I had the same below, and then you can see on the top left above the tank, my return lockline output (minus the head on it as I was switching it out for a flare nozzle from a straight/round one). Had I used one of the top bulkheads for my return line, you can see just how much the water would have to drain just to break the siphon as the overflow sat a few inches above the bulkhead and the overflow is what actually dictates your water level. So with that said, depending on the height distance between your overflow and the top bulkhead, you might want to skip using one of those bulkheads for a return and do something over the top to be safe. Just a few personal thoughts.



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[07FocusST]

So since I bought me a Reeflo Hammerhead 5800GPH pump for my closed loop I can play with some ideas. I would like to see what I can do with placing a T-fitting off the outlet and using some of the return for my Beckett skimmer and the rest to feed the return manifold of 6 outlets to the tank. I would use a 1" SCWD as the T-fitting to tie into the Manifold in the middle splitting the 6 returns into 2x banks of 3 returns. Only problem is the SCWD can handle 3500GPH Max and I don't know how to meaure that out exactly. I guess-timated that the Beckett will take around 1000GPH or more to run properly so the knocks me down from 5800GPH @ 0ft head to 5000GPH @ 5ft to 4000GPH @ 5ft head & Beckett skimmer. It will most likely end up being right at 3500GPH anyway since it will probably just a little over 5ft of head.

 

[mojoreef]

Remember if you put in a tee onthe closed loop and direct water to a skimmer, its not a closed loop. So now you will need to compensate for the extra water coming from the skimmer and into the sump, with a return pum that can handle its normal process and the increased amount from the skimmer. Also you have to create some kind of safety plan if the power goes out.

Mojo

 

[07FocusST]

Just making sure your still paying attention Mojo. Anyway how's about this: Still Tee off of the Hammerhead outlet into the Beckett BUT.... Have the Beckett's outlet recirc back to the Hammerheads inlet? We use this setup on the Navy ships all the time to prevent cavitation and it from going airbound. My concern would be that it may recirc too much and heat up the water a little.

Otherwise knowing that the water will take the path of least resistance I would imagine that it wont recirc too much water from the skimmer. Also being able to control the inlet and outlet of the skimmer by ball valve helps too. If this works out fine then hows about adding my Berlin X2 skimmer in the sump also? Would this be excessive skimming?

 

[mojoreef]

I am still with ya buddy No I cant think of anyway of using the cl pump with the skimmer. If you try to recirc it back to the cl it will just come out of the top of the skimmer, nothing good about that plan my friend, it just has to many issues.

I am not sure what the plan was for a skimmer, or what kind you wanted to use. Pending on the type you could always use the water coming down from the drain lines?? into the sump, but if its a skimmer that needs pressure it might now work.

Mojo

 

[07FocusST]

Yes the Beckett requires a high amount of gph. somewhere around 1000+ gph. Throttling the inlet to the Beckett skimmer will determine its gph while Throttling the outlet valve sets the water height inside the skimmer chamber. I am fairly confident this will work. I will take some time and check out a few Beckett skimmer videos to be sure.

 

[07FocusST]

Wow it seriously took me that long to figure out what you meant by water coming out the top of the skimmer. even in a recirc setup once the power goes out the water will flood the skimmer and rush out of it because of gravity and back pressure of water in the closed loop piping. got ya. I will have to look into a third pump to run the beckett. I don't want to permanently run my Berlin because sucks.