A bit overwhelmed, could use some advice...[LONG]

[ChadO]

Hello folks,

OK, so my plan was to convert my 90 gallon freshwater tank to a community FOWLR tank with (eventually) some soft corals. Since it is my first entrance into saltwater, I started researching sumps, skimmers, etc. I settled on some equipment that I would need (mostly off the shelf rather than DIY) and YIKES, that added up quick! On a whim, I went onto Craigslist, and came across someone who was exiting the hobby and happened to have the same equipment that I was looking at, and then some - and I mean some. I am getting more equipment than I will initially know what to do with! Anyway, it was just too tempting/financially adventageous, so I pulled the trigger, and now on Friday or Saturday, I'll be making the trip to pick it all up. This has sort of turned on end my plan of setting up a dry tank, buying live rock, etc. Instead, I'll be tearing down an existing, and re-setting up.

So, my goals are this: I want to find good homes to the livestock - the tank (75 gallon) comes with 4 fish, bunches of snails, crabs and shrimp. I am sure that this disruption will be stressful on them, and I'd rather get them re-homed where they can continue life, rather than hang out while I cut my teeth in starting out here and surely making some mistakes. But, I do want to keep the existing live rock - seems to make the most sense - as well as anything that could handle hanging out while the tank re-cycles.

That is a bit of the back story, now onto the questions. I hope listing them out in a sinlge post is desirable here, if not, we'll correct that in future posts.

1. How long will the fish/livestock be OK to travel once they are bagged up at his place? I estimate that it will take about 90 minutes for me to get back home once I have everything loaded up. Will they be OK for that long, or what precautions should I take? The fish are a clown pair (have bred a number of times), a juvinille Emperor Angel, and a Dwarf Angel if that helps.
2. What should I do to keep the live rock live while I set up my tank? I have read that when curing, folks put a circulation pump and heater in the bin, and let it go. Since this rock will have come from an established tank, will it need the same treatment, or is there a short grace period before it dies off, etc? I know that I will certainly cycle again, and I'm not trying to avoid that, but it seems that any benefit I can get from the state that this rock is currently in, I should do that.
3. He has probably 100+ lbs of sand in the tank right now. He thought he recalled that re-using sand in setting up a tank again was not advisable. Is this true? I don't mind starting with fresh sand, but if that is not required, then I might as well use what is there. For my setup, I don't really plan on having a deep sandbed, just a bit more than the minimum to give it a sort of natural look. I know sand is a personal preference thing, and I want some, but not a full deep, deep bed.
4. In my research when I was going to convert my 90 gallon acrylic tank, I read up on the "herbie" method and thought that sounded really good as my wife will want the tank as quiet as possible. That reminds me, I need to tell her about this whole deal...sigh...I digress. Anyway, the tank is not drilled, and as I understand it, almost all modern glass tanks now have tempered glass bottoms which make DIY drilling not possible, or not recommended - does that sound correct? So, if I don't want to go with an external overflow box, then drilling the back of the tank seems like the only option. Have people gone this route (drilling the back) and the Herbie method with success?
5. The lighting that I am getting is (4) 110 watt Ice Cap 660 VHO, plus (2) 54 watt T-5. This is over a 75 gallon tank - 20" tall. Where does this put me in terms of keeping corals? I am fairly tempted to sell this off and put in LEDs as I am in setup mode, and seems like a good time to do it. However, if it would be unwise to do it because the cost to get back to where I am now would be exceedingly expensive, then maybe staying with what I have coming is the better option. Put another way, what would a person be looking at lighting wise and cost, to cover a 75 gallon tank with LEDs with the intention of keeping soft corals? Since I am a beginner in this area, I don't have a strong desire to jump to the most difficult corals, but rather grow with experience. If I can get to the "this will grow all the soft corals you could want, and some types of stonies in the future" that might be a good level to target. I know I will always want fish in the tank, so I won't go to the extreme of hard corals only.

OK, so that is about all I should probably start off with. Any suggestions on what to have on hand before I make the trip would be great as well. I plan to go to HD and pick up a Brute 32 gallon to hold the live rock. Aside from that, unless I am going to drill the tank, I don't know what else might be needed before I pick it up. He says I am getting enough salt to re-setup my tank and sump, so I shold be good there.

Thanks!

ChadO

 

[mojoreef]

How long will the fish/livestock be OK to travel once they are bagged up at his place? I estimate that it will take about 90 minutes for me to get back home once I have everything loaded up. Will they be OK for that long, or what precautions should I take? The fish are a clown pair (have bred a number of times), a juvinille Emperor Angel, and a Dwarf Angel if that helps.

Should be fine in bags on the trip, grab a few hand warmers and wrap them in some news paper and put them in the box you have the fish in, just make sure they dont directly touch the fish bags, one home put them in a pre setup container with heat and water flow.

What should I do to keep the live rock live while I set up my tank? I have read that when curing, folks put a circulation pump and heater in the bin, and let it go. Since this rock will have come from an established tank, will it need the same treatment, or is there a short grace period before it dies off, etc? I know that I will certainly cycle again, and I'm not trying to avoid that, but it seems that any benefit I can get from the state that this rock is currently in, I should do that.

Yep garbage can with a heater and a powerhead. You will get some die off but shouldnt be that bad depending on the amount of sponge in the rock.

He has probably 100+ lbs of sand in the tank right now. He thought he recalled that re-using sand in setting up a tank again was not advisable. Is this true? I don't mind starting with fresh sand, but if that is not required, then I might as well use what is there. For my setup, I don't really plan on having a deep sandbed, just a bit more than the minimum to give it a sort of natural look. I know sand is a personal preference thing, and I want some, but not a full deep, deep bed.

You can save a little bit of the top layer for seeding the new tank, so just scrape off the top 3/4 inch of it and bag it like the fish. the rest just bucket up for severe washing down the road, prior to reset.

In my research when I was going to convert my 90 gallon acrylic tank, I read up on the "herbie" method and thought that sounded really good as my wife will want the tank as quiet as possible. That reminds me, I need to tell her about this whole deal...sigh...I digress. Anyway, the tank is not drilled, and as I understand it, almost all modern glass tanks now have tempered glass bottoms which make DIY drilling not possible, or not recommended - does that sound correct? So, if I don't want to go with an external overflow box, then drilling the back of the tank seems like the only option. Have people gone this route (drilling the back) and the Herbie method with success?

Dont know Herbie or his method, lol but you can drill the back or go with an over the top overflow, lots of ways to skin a cat...sorry cat lovers.

The lighting that I am getting is (4) 110 watt Ice Cap 660 VHO, plus (2) 54 watt T-5. This is over a 75 gallon tank - 20" tall. Where does this put me in terms of keeping corals? I am fairly tempted to sell this off and put in LEDs as I am in setup mode, and seems like a good time to do it. However, if it would be unwise to do it because the cost to get back to where I am now would be exceedingly expensive, then maybe staying with what I have coming is the better option. Put another way, what would a person be looking at lighting wise and cost, to cover a 75 gallon tank with LEDs with the intention of keeping soft corals? Since I am a beginner in this area, I don't have a strong desire to jump to the most difficult corals, but rather grow with experience. If I can get to the "this will grow all the soft corals you could want, and some types of stonies in the future" that might be a good level to target. I know I will always want fish in the tank, so I won't go to the extreme of hard corals only.

You should be fine to grow all types of softie, and most all hard corals. You will be a bit challenged to grow most types of sps but you really dont want to get into those until your tank is mature and you have a better knowledge of whats going on. SO its good enough to start.


Mojo

 

[jrgilles]

I am running a herbie style drain with no drilling. You will need 2 drains to do it though. I bought some weir (overflow) boxes on ebay and they are working great. One drain is a backup (really hardly ever kicks on, but NEEDED incase there is a clog on the main drain.) Put a gate valve on the plumbing to the main drain (I am using a ball valve, but I really wish I used a gate valve.) You adjust it down until the overflow box has a bit of water above the pipe, so it is running at a full syphon. And then it is silent. I love this drain style. Even if you are not doing a herbie, a backup drain will at some point save you from a flood (something gets caught in the drain line.) I have a secondary drain on the tanks in my set up, just in case. It has definately saved me from flooding multiple times.

Lighting seems pretty good. Could definately do softies and some LPS I think. Others might have more info on this though. On my 75, I am running 2X250W MH bulbs (14k) and 4X54W compact fluorescent bulbs. I can grow just about anything in my system. SPS, LPS, etc all doing good.

rob

 

[mcoomer]

My reply...also long...LOL

As Mojo noted, 90 minutes should be fine if you take some precautions. If you have a box or cooler, place handwarmers under a layer of newspaper and then add your bagged fish. Secure the box so that you don't have to worry about it sliding around or overturning while your driving. For the sand, I wouldn't worry about trying to keep any of it alive. Simply put what you want to reuse in buckets and give it a very thorough rinsing prior to adding it back to the tank. Once your tank is reestablished you can easily reseed the sand with a small quantity of live sand.

On the overflow, I've heard good things about the herbie method of overflow plumbing. Personally, I set up a three channel overflow that was developed by a guy on Reef Central named Bean Animal. There is a huge thread about the setup but essentially it uses a main closed channel, a secondary open channel, and an emergency channel for overflow. I installed a coast to coast overflow box and the three channel setup and I'm very happy with how quietly my tanks drains.

The center overflow is the closed channel and does the majority of the work. It is a full suction channel and is 1 1/2" PVC all the way to the sump. The left channel is the open channel. There is an air hose that runs from this channel to point just above the water line in the overflow box. If the water level rises the air hose inlet is submerged and the channel becomes a full suction channel, increasing its capacity. Finally, the upward pointing PVC is the emergency channel. If there is a blockage of some kind to either of the other channels the water level rises and drains into the emergency channel. You can see the plumbing and valves in the next picture. I had to be a little creative with the plumbing as I bought the tank used and the previous owner had drilled the holes vertically. The fourth pipe, on the bottom, feeds my chiller.

The last pic shows the overflow box setup. Normally you would drill the holes horizontally and use a shallow coast to coast box but since the holes in this tank were drilled vertically I needed a larger box on the end to hide the plumbing.

Finally, I'd stick with the lighting that you have for now. As Mojo noted, you're going to need to gain some experience before you want to tackle SPS. What you have will support a wide range of attractive and colorful corals while you're learning the hobby.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[TJL]

Hey! A BIG :welcome: to Reef Frontiers and looks like your off to a great start into the saltwater side of hobby. Please let us know if you need any help at your end of trip as there are several members in your area or close by (self included) to give you a hand. Since your taking your time and not pushing it by keeping the livestock I'd definitely drill out and install an internal overflow setup similar to Mikes (mcoomer) above while its still convenient to do so. As far as lighting you can grow absolutely any coral or clams you want with that VHO setup (I did for 20+ years) but like MH the power consumption and heat will be the downside. I just this week finally made the switch to LED's and couldn't be happier about decision. I have a 50g QT already setup if you need a place to house the fish in for a while and also extra buckets etc... if needed. Shoot me a pm if you want to arrange anything.

Cheers, Todd

 

[BigAl07]

Welcome to RF! Not much to add because the previous posts really covered anything I could/would say!

Mike great reply on the Bean Animal/Herbie technique. You had to overcome some significant hurdles with a vertically drilled system but it looks like you ROCKED IT!

Only thing I'd add is if ChadO is going to go ahead and drill (highly suggest you say YES here) look into the external Coast-2-
Coast overflow system. It will save you some valuable "in-Tank" real estate and works like a charm.

 

[ChadO]

Great responses!

Thanks everyone for the great information and offers of help. It is really appreciated. I'll contact folks if needed when I get the date nailed down more. Right now, it is either Friday late afternoon, or Sat. Once that is finalized, then I can make more definite plans.
After reading the replies here and doing some more research, I'll definitely be drilling the tank. Now the new question becomes, which tank. Here are my possibilites:

1. Drill the 75 gallon that I am getting as part of my package. It is a glass tank with presumably a tempered bottom, so it would need to be drilled in the back.
2. Re-use my 90 gallon acrylic tank, thus upping the volume of the tank, but adding 4" to the height - thinking of light implications here... To do this, however, I would need to modify the stand. The stand that I am getting in the package is built for a glass tank, and therefore does not have a solid top. I would need to modify it to accept a "hidden" top that could support an acrylic tank since they need full bottom support. Has anyone else done this? Seems like it would be pretty easy to do. If I go this route, I could then either drill the bottom, or the back of the tank. Any serious advantages there either way?
3. I have found someone who has a 75 gallon reef ready tank that they are wanting to sell that is, of course, already drilled. This option would involve buying yet another tank, and then having to sell two tanks. Not a huge deal, but a bit more of a hassle.

Anyone have thoughts on what they might do with those three options?

Thanks!

ChadO

 

[jrgilles]

The light issues with the extra 4" on the 90 is what made me go with a 75.

Probably not hard to resell the tanks on the classifieds here or craigslist, but yea, kind of a pain... Drilling is also kind of a pain though. I guess it may depend on how the tank is drilled. Does it have all the holes you are going to need in it? (ie. at least 2 drains and a return)

 

[ChadO]

Ah, you bring up a really good point. I will need to follow up and ask the number of drilled holes. I just inquired if it was drilled or not. If it doesn't have three, defeats the purpose of buying that extra tank.


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