additives

[sryder]

ok guys I am curious as to a couple of additives.

1) strontium what it is and what are the correct params?

2) molybdenum what it is and whats it for? what are the correct params?

3) has anyone used b ionic? have you had success with it? what are the benefits and or negatives of the product?
steve

 

[mmkeeper]

I use b-ionic and like it. If you are in balnce with Ca and kh/alk you add equal amounts both parts. If your tank demand is not equal you will need to find the correct miz. This tool can help.http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

 

[steve-s]

I'm gonna move this one to Boomers forum. I think you'll get a better answer. I don't think I have ever seen a study for Molybdenum in marine aquaria.

As for the strontium, here's a good write up... Strontium and the Reef Aquarium
At the very least you can test for strontium. Personally I wouldn't bother with this or any of the minor elements that can be taken care of with regular weekly water changes.

Cheers
Steve

 

[aquaticImports]

Molybdenum can cause algea growth in a tank that is not well populated with corals.Strontium is very important in SPS corals . It helps the soft tissue adhear to the coral skeleton .Turbo Strontium is a product from Kent Marine. It comes with out molybdenum in case you are worried about algea growth.I have had great success with turbo strontium.

 

[sryder]

I use b-ionic and like it. If you are in balnce with Ca and kh/alk you add equal amounts both parts. If your tank demand is not equal you will need to find the correct miz. This tool can help.http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

If I am reading the bottle correctly this is an every day additive. will your calcium and alk levels continue to rise once your params are in the normal range?
or will it bring the levels in range and even out?

 

[sryder]

Molybdenum can cause algea growth in a tank that is not well populated with corals.Strontium is very important in SPS corals . It helps the soft tissue adhear to the coral skeleton .Turbo Strontium is a product from Kent Marine. It comes with out molybdenum in case you are worried about algea growth.I have had great success with turbo strontium.

so molybdenum has no other use in aquaria. is there strontiums out there that do have it and which ones should you avoid?

 

[sryder]

I'm gonna move this one to Boomers forum. I think you'll get a better answer. I don't think I have ever seen a study for Molybdenum in marine aquaria.

As for the strontium, here's a good write up... Strontium and the Reef Aquarium
At the very least you can test for strontium. Personally I wouldn't bother with this or any of the minor elements that can be taken care of with regular weekly water changes.

Cheers
Steve

i think I agree steve. i will get a test kit though just to watch it. i would actually like to see if there is an actual uptake by the corals.
can this also be skimmed out?

 

[Krish]

I use the 2 part B-Ionic Steve and love it. My calcium, magnesium and Alk are always right on the money with it and the only other thing I use in my tank is Instant Ocean when doing a water change

 

[steve-s]

can this also be skimmed out?

Yes....

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/rs/feature/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php

Cheers
Steve

 

[sryder]

I use the 2 part B-Ionic Steve and love it. My calcium, magnesium and Alk are always right on the money with it and the only other thing I use in my tank is Instant Ocean when doing a water change

krish, if I hit the point where your calcium and alk params are correct do you continue the every day dosage or do you stop it?
reading the bottle kind of eludes that you continue and you will not raise your values. is this correct?

 

[brianblack]

sryder what do you use for your alk test?? I gonna go check mine now.

 

[Krish]

krish, if I hit the point where your calcium and alk params are correct do you continue the every day dosage or do you stop it?

I continue everyday using it. In the beginning I had to test a lot to make sure I was using the right doseages. I was using equal parts of calcium and alk, but the alk went too high so I had to cut back on the doseage I added each day of the alk, and left the calcium doseage where it was and everything stays exactly the same when testing. Now that I've added a few corals, I'm sure I will have to adjust it a bit. I haven't tested for 1 week yet because I wanted to give the tank some time to use up some of the calcium etc so before I do my water change tomorrow, I will test to see if I have to make any adjustments, but in the meantime, I still continued adding the part 1 and 2 daily

 

[sryder]

sryder what do you use for your alk test?? I gonna go check mine now.

I got the same as you the salifert.

 

[sryder]

sorry,
alk2.97
dkh8.3

 

[Boomer]

steve


1) strontium what it is and what are the correct params?

2) molybdenum what it is and whats it for? what are the correct params?

3) has anyone used b ionic? have you had success with it? what are the benefits and or negatives of the product?


1. Sr++ and is almost the same as Ca++. When present in water it often substitutes or beats a Ca++ ion to the crystal site in CO3-- carbonates. There is no sound reason test for it or use it as an additive. Many reefers overt he years have never addition or sup'd with Sr++ and corals are doing fine. It is still an issue if it is really needed. IMHO it is but still I see no need for sup.

steve-s gave some good ref for you to read on Sr

2. Molybdenum; It is a important element in plant growth and all life forms. It is found in some groups of enzymes and need for amino acid building. Molybdenum is only need as at race in water. It mostly helps in the use of nitrogen. Some algae's accumulate large amounts of Mo. Plants on the avg have about 50 ppm Mo. There is no way to sup this or tell what levels you so I would stay away. Mo is toxic if to high and can alter copper in those animals that have it or use it. Excessive Mo can also cause algae growth.

3. b ionic? It is very good stuff if it meets your needs. The ideal wish is if kalk, if can meet all the demands.

aquaticImports
Strontium is very important in SPS corals .

Says who ? Although I think it may help in coral growth. Got a ref that says it is very important in coral growth

It helps the soft tissue adhear to the coral skeleton

That sounds like nonsense to me. Got a ref on that ? Ca++ and Sr ++ are almost the same thing. That is why you find it in aragonite and other Ca++ minerals. It fills the same "void" space as a Ca++, accept in very tight fitting crystals Calcite

 

[sryder]

steve


1) strontium what it is and what are the correct params?

2) molybdenum what it is and whats it for? what are the correct params?

3) has anyone used b ionic? have you had success with it? what are the benefits and or negatives of the product?


1. Sr++ and is almost the same as Ca++. When present in water it often substitutes or beats a Ca++ ion to the crystal site in CO3-- carbonates. There is no sound reason test for it or use it as an additive. Many reefers overt he years have never addition or sup'd with Sr++ and corals are doing fine. It is still an issue if it is really needed. IMHO it is but still I see no need for sup.

steve-s gave some good ref for you to read on Sr

2. Molybdenum; It is a important element in plant growth and all life forms. It is found in some groups of enzymes and need for amino acid building. Molybdenum is only need as at race in water. It mostly helps in the use of nitrogen. Some algae's accumulate large amounts of Mo. Plants on the avg have about 50 ppm Mo. There is no way to sup this or tell what levels you so I would stay away. Mo is toxic if to high and can alter copper in those animals that have it or use it. Excessive Mo can also cause algae growth.

3. b ionic? It is very good stuff if it meets your needs. The ideal wish is if kalk, if can meet all the demands.

aquaticImports
Strontium is very important in SPS corals .

Says who ? Although I think it may help in coral growth. Got a ref that says it is very important in coral growth

It helps the soft tissue adhear to the coral skeleton

That sounds like nonsense to me. Got a ref on that ? Ca++ and Sr ++ are almost the same thing. That is why you find it in aragonite and other Ca++ minerals. It fills the same "void" space as a Ca++, accept in very tight fitting crystals Calcite

thanks boomer for keeping that somewhat simple. if you run a fuge with say cheato and export on a regular basis for nitrate control would you also be removing the molybdenum?

if so its kinda strange you need the moly for good plant growth but we grow the plants to export the moly???


steve-s did give some good reads being at work this weekend is hard to read and i get home late so will read more on that on monday.

I am hoping the bionic can meet my needs pretty easily. i only have lps,shrooms, zoos and a couple of leathers. i do not uptake alot of calcium.

 

[Curtswearing]

thanks boomer for keeping that somewhat simple. if you run a fuge with say cheato and export on a regular basis for nitrate control would you also be removing the molybdenum?

if so its kinda strange you need the moly for good plant growth but we grow the plants to export the moly???.

Mo is a trace element. Very little of it is needed in your tank. We don't grow the plants to export it, it's just a byproduct of the export. Regardless, you're fine either way. If you use Kalkwasser vs B-Ionic, your next waterchange will replenish your trace elements. If you use B-Ionic, it has trace elements included as well as the major elements.

steve-s did give some good reads being at work this weekend is hard to read and i get home late so will read more on that on monday.

I am hoping the bionic can meet my needs pretty easily. i only have lps,shrooms, zoos and a couple of leathers. i do not uptake alot of calcium.

Based on your posted corals, you probably won't have to dose often unless you like what I hate....coralline algae.

 

[sryder]

Mo is a trace element. Very little of it is needed in your tank. We don't grow the plants to export it, it's just a byproduct of the export. Regardless, you're fine either way. If you use Kalkwasser vs B-Ionic, your next waterchange will replenish your trace elements. If you use B-Ionic, it has trace elements included as well as the major elements.

curt, I usually do a 10% water change every week. if i use the b-ionic will the trace elements such as moly raise to levels I dont want them at?


Based on your posted corals, you probably won't have to dose often unless you like what I hate....coralline algae.

there is something about the color contrast to some of the corals

still one of my favorites...

 

[Curtswearing]

curt, I usually do a 10% water change every week. if i use the b-ionic will the trace elements such as moly raise to levels I dont want them at?

I truly don't know. I doubt it but cannot say for sure. Reefkeeping is a developing hobby and science. There are no testing kits for Mo that I know of. I own a Sr testing kit. I've only done it once (and will probably never do it again).

You're likely good as gold. A couple of years from now, I might have a different recommendation. However, right now, you have to do with the best that you know (and the scientists know). I suspect that there will be no change but you never know.

EDIT: BTW, I love Euphyllia. Great coral!!!

 

[Boomer]

if you run a fuge with say cheato and export on a regular basis for nitrate control would you also be removing the molybdenum?

As Curt said yes. As the plant density in the fuge increases you will need to remove some of that algae and Mo will go with it, just like anything else that algae removes from water. As any part of a plant dies or when you cut it back Mo will released into the water. Don't forget that allot of the foods you may be adding have Mo in them so why sup it. Same for iodine

curt, I usually do a 10% water change every week. if i use the b-ionic will the trace elements such as moly raise to levels I dont want them at?

No. Some mathematical models show that a single 30% or greater water change / m will keep all ions that you are adding as sup's or are being released will be within normal range. You are beyond that so you are fine.