Algae identification problem

[J-dog]

I've been talking back-and-forth with Krish about a diatom problem I've been having. I thought we solved the problem (since it looked like the diatoms were going away), but things seem to be getting worse. I have this brown stuff, which I thought was diatoms, growing on my rocks now. It seems to be a long, stringy, brown algae that grows or gets stuck on my corals too. We can't figure out what to do or how to get rid of it. All my water parameters are good, bulbs are new, RO/DI water tests zero with a TDS. My phosphate tests always come back zero, but gonna test with a Hanna this weekend to make sure (since I hear all PO4 tests are crap). Just got a Vortech MP40 two weeks ago, and the added flow doesn't make a difference. Please help, I am getting desperate

Here are some pics.....If u know what this is, or how to get rid of it, please help!

There is some on top of the birdsnest here...

 

[alki]

cyanobacteria

 

[J-dog]

Doesn't flow get rid of cyano? And why would it be all over my tank, and not just in the dead spots?

 

[alki]

is it kinda spiderwebby? cyano will blow off with a powerhead. But it needs heavy flow. If it wont blow away.. then I dont know what it is.

 

[J-dog]

is it kinda spiderwebby? cyano will blow off with a powerhead. But it needs heavy flow. If it wont blow away.. then I dont know what it is.

Yes, it will blow off if I put it in front of a powerhead, but can u give me a little more info along with your responses? It would be nice to understand what I am dealing with

 

[alki]

seriously? google cyanobacteria

 

[returnofsid]

It's either Cyano or Dinoflagalletes. They can look identical, but you can tell them apart, by their behavior. However, your pictures look like Dinos.

At night, Dinos all die off, robbing all the oxygen from the water, as they die. In the morning, the tank will look great, with very little signs of the problem. However, by mid-day, you'll see "stringy SNOT" growing, and by evening, it's everywhere.

Cyano, on the other hand, is not effected at night, so will appear the same, morning to evening.

It's important to properly ID the problem, because they have completely different treatments.

Cyano, increased fow almost always solves the problem.

Dinos, there are 2 somewhat successful ways to deal with it. One slightly more successful, but vastly more difficult. One still successful but can make the tank owner (you) nervous.

1. Raise pH to 8.7-8.9 and KEEP it there, for 2 weeks. This is difficult because it requires dosing with baking soda, several times per day, and monitoring your pH, several times per day.

2. Turn your lights off, COMPLETELY OFF, for 5 days. On day 6, turn your lights on for 4 hours, day 7, 6 hours, day 8, 8 hours...etc, until you're at your complete light cycle.

#2 does work and it's not as scary as it sounds. I've done this more than once, on more than one tank, all predominately SPS/Clams. No tank inhabitants were any worse for the experience. Some recommend 3 days, that didn't work for me, so I went with 5.

Important:

If you determine that you have Dinos, don't do water changes. Water changes are almost always the answer. However, some studies have shown that water changes seem to actually fuel Dinos. Don't blow it around with a turkey baster, or power head.

You will do a water change, AFTER you'd completely your dark cycle.

 

[J-dog]

It's either Cyano or Dinoflagalletes..

Thanks for the help, Returnofsid. So my tank lights have been off for over 4 hours now and I can still see long strands of this stuff attached to my frag rack and rocks. So what does that mean? If it's cyano, should I crank up my Vortech to full speed and solve the problem? What would u recommend I do in my situation? I don't want to treat for Dino's if they aren't what I got.

 

[returnofsid]

Wait until morning and see how it looks. 4 hours of darkness isn't enough for it to die off.

 

[J-dog]

So in the morning I shouldn't see any sign of the stuff? I'll let u know tomorrow

 

[Krish]

A picture is worth a thousand words!!! We have been trying to figure out this diatom issue for a bit and then yesterday I asked to get some pictures to see exactly what he was dealing with and realized that it didn't look at all like diatoms, but more like possibly brown cyno. Dino's didn't even cross my mind until Sid mentioned them. Let us know how they look first thing in the morning.

 

[J-dog]

Ok, I woke up this morning and still saw stuff growing on rock and frag rack. It wasn't as much as last night, but it was still there. I saw snails in the area, so I don't if they could have munch on some during the night. I took more pics, so let me know what u think....

 

[returnofsid]

Comparing yesterday's pics, with today's pics, especially around the Seriatapora guttata, in my opinion, you are dealing with Dinos. See if there's a noticed increase, by this early evening.

If it is Dinos, snails and herbivorous fish, will consume it. However, it's toxic, so if they consume enough of it, over a long enough period, it will start to kill herbivores. This is assuming it doesn't grow to such mass quantity, that when it dies at night, robbing oxygen from the water, it doesn't kill inhabitants that way.

Both of these lethal issues are something you don't need to worry about, at this time. You aren't dealing with a large enough plague for it to cause either of these problems. So, if you do need to watch it's behavior, over a few days, to get an accurate ID, you're in no danger of it causing any lethal issues.

 

[J-dog]

I just got home, and the stuff is thicker than ever. It looks like its tripled since this morning. This stuff must be lethal cuz I've lost numerous snails and crabs in the last few weeks.

So if you were in my shoes, how would u proceed? Would u black the tank out for 5 days or raise the PH? What happens to the fish if u black out the tank for that long? Can they go 5 days without food? As u can see, this is all new to me, so the more info the better. And how does blacking out the tank get rid of the dino's? Will they return in the future if I do something wrong? Thanks again for the help, sid.

 

[returnofsid]

If I were in your shoes, I'd do the same thing I did, when I had Dinos, in a couple different tanks. I turned my lights completely out, for 5 days, as I outlined above. The pH treatment is too difficult to maintain. You may experience some loss of color, or even mild bleaching, among some of your SPS, though none of mine were negatively effected at all. Fish can still be fed, during this time, but I'd suggest feeding them minimally. At the end of 5 days, when you start slowly increasing your light cycle, you'll also want to do a large water change.

Again, some people suggest a 3 day lights out period, others suggest 5. Some have success with 3 days, some don't. More people have success with 5 days.

Dinos are very "light dependant," though there are a few species of Dinos, that have been shown to not have a limiting factor of light, meaning lights out won't work. Those species are mainly cold water species, and rarely found in our reef tanks.

Now, if you want to research it, I've been recently reading about people using Hydrogen Peroxide, as a treatment against Dinos. I haven't read enough about it, to recommend for or against it.

 

[J-dog]

Will I receive color loss/bleaching using the lights out method or the pH method?

 

[returnofsid]

You may experience some color issues, doing the lights out method. Some people have done it, with no issues at all, including myself. Others have reported color loss, and even some mild SPS die off. Pocillopora seems to be sensitive to changes, more so than a lot of corals and will sometimes have Polyp Bailout, when too stressed. However, a color loss, even a mild bleaching or SPS die off, is nothing, considering how difficult Dinos can be to deal with, otherwise.

 

[akunochi]

The hydrogen peroxide treatment has also been found to cure amyloodinium. HOWEVER, extreme caution must be had as too little does nothing and too much kills EVERYTHING. it is a very narrow window of margin and I don't feel there is enough research done to recommend this to any but the most expert (And by that I mean aquaria/marine biologists) with a specialization in captive systems.


And they don't need my advice....