Another Tang 911, Help asap!!!

[eww]

I have a fishie question for your experience. We added a Kole Tang last Tuesday night. We got him from the guy that we are buying a 210 tank from. It was actually one of the last fish in the 210. He had him for quite a while and he says the fish was always healthy and happy. We drip acclimated it for about 90 min and let him loose in the tank after all the lights were off. He seemed happy and was eating well right away and it was business as usual until recently. The last couple of days we have been really busy so we haven't been watching the tank very closely as we usually do. So wouldn't you know it, now the Tang seems to be going down hill. I noticed today that he wasn't coming out from behind the rocks. When we fed this afternoon we didn't see him come out and eat. We looked behind the rocks and he is swimming in circles, upside down, twisting around, sideways, anyway but normal. We tried for over an hour to chase him out into the open to net him to transfer him to a QT but could never catch him. When ever he did swim into the open he swam "normally" and looked fine but he always returned to the same spot in the center of the back of the tank behind the rocks and started swimming the same way. I did water tests and everything seems normal, Sal 1.026, Amm 0, Nitrites 0.2, Nitrates 0, PH 8.2, Alk 9. The temp did jump a bit today with the humidity but only up to 80.9 from a normal range of 78-79. One thing we did change recently is we started adding some amino acids supplement to the feedings for the corals. The instructions weren't real clear. It is Brightwells AminOmega. I was putting 3-4drops in with the evening feeding. We only did the the last two nights and we did not do it tonight for fear it might be the problem. We just fed again tonight as I am typing and none of the food is getting to where he is so he is not eating now. He is swimming in place at the bottom of the tank vertical and moving around some. It doesn't look like his mouth ever closes though. It's really hard to see him to get a good look at much else. His color is good, his eyes seem alert, and his fins are all in tact so it doesn't look like he's been picked on. The other fish in the tank are small pair of Bengai Cardinals, a pair of small Occ. Clowns, a Tail Spot Blenny, a med size Flame Hawk. Everyone has always gotten along and they are all acting normal still today. There is also a Tiger Pistol Shrimp under the rocks but it never comes out as there is no Watchman Goby for it. We also have 2 Elegance corals in the tank. Could the Tang have been stung by one? This is the second Tang for us. The first one was a Yellow Tang and it died after a week. In hind sight we figured we starved it as the tank was pretty new and there wasn't much algae growth. We didn't know any better back then as we were really new ourselves. Now it is just making me sick to think we may loose this fish as well. We aren't into this hobby to kill things. Any ideas of what to do or what it could be? Sorry for the lengthy description but I wanted to cover as many bases as I could.

 

[mcoomer]

If you don't see any lesions, ich, cuts, torn fins, or any other obvious symptoms I'd have to guess that the fish has a swim bladder problem. The fact that it's swimming upside down is probably another indication of a swim bladder problem. If it is the swim bladder I don't know how to deal with it and it may be that time is the only thing that will resolve this problem. Maybe try an antibacterial medication like Maracyn 2 but you'll want to get the fish into QT before you use it.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[eww]

Well getting into a Qt is all but impossible. As I mentioned earlier we tried for well over an hour trying to net it. Came close a couple of times but no luck. What causes a swimming bladder problem? Now that the lights are down I see him poke out once in a while but he darts right back into the rocks. We probably freaked him out pretty bad trying to catch him earlier.

 

[ac7av]

That is some strange behavior. A temp swing like that isn’t going to cause that. It doesn’t sound like you have anything in the tank that would be a problem to the kole. I’m curious that when you said it comes out into the open it swims fine, interesting?

My theory is that since the fish was in a much bigger tank for some time, it may be stressed by the smaller dimension, width wise of the tall tank. If this is a mature fish you will want to get it back into the 210 as soon as you get it set back up. Fish like tangs probably do not like downsizing much. I know people keep them in smaller tanks but this fish has already been in a much longer tank. All of a sudden his house just got 75% smaller.

 

[eww]

This is true Erik and it is something I had not thought of when we got him (another noob move). Not only was it a big 210 it was virtually empty with no rock or anything so it was even bigger than normal. Now he is in a 36"x15" footprint tank with lots of rock. Now that he is in there and it would be really difficult to remove it, will it get better on it's own over time? We aren't going to be ready for the 210 until after the 1st of the year .

 

[NC2WA]

IF it is swim bladder disease, and this is a big IF, you can read this:

Swim-bladder Disease
Symptoms: Abnormal swimming pattern, difficulty maintaining equilibrium.
Swim bladder problems usually indicate another problem listed here. If you suspect swim-bladder problems in a fish, first check and treat it for other diseases as listed below:

•Congenitally deformed bladder
•Cancer or tuberculosis in organs adjacent to the swim bladder
•Constipation
•Poor nutrition
•Chilling or rapid fluctuations in temperature
•Serious parasitic infestation
•Serious bacterial infestation
If you have eliminated other causes, make sure you are feeding the right food and make sure the fish is not constipated. Give it live food for awhile to ensure it is getting enough roughage. Also, check the temperature for your fish's requirements and keep the temperature stable.

Unfortunately there is no medications I am aware of that cures this..

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm#Swim-bladder Disease

 

[NC2WA]

Just did a search and found this old thread that had a reply from Lee:

"In young fishes the bladder is still connected to the digestive tract. This allows some infections to occur when bacteria manage to get into the bladder.

Bladder infections, if this is the case, are hard to eradicate and take special time, resources, and care.

The procedure for this is to move the fish into a hospital aquarium, presumably with a functional biological filter. Tetracycline is the best for treatment, however it is not stable in the marine aquarium water. If you can find a product containing this that specifically says it is for saltwater fish use, then that is the one to obtain.

Second choice would be to treat with an antibiotic known to migrate inside of the fish. That is, an antibiotic that just doesn't treat surface (topical) infections but will also treat systemic infections.

A consideration on the second choice is what kind of infection is present. Not likely we will ever know for sure, but it is best not to take the risk by incorrectly choosing the antibiotic. By this I mean to say that the best approach is to use two antibiotics -- one specialized for gram positive and the other specialized for gram negative bacteria. Lastly, of course, they must be complimentary and/or compatible.

I would choose to treat with both Maracyn One and Maracyn Two for saltwater fishes. I would increase the dosage of just the Maracyn Two by 50% above the recommended dose. Follow package instructions otherwise. After the first 5-day treatment, continue on with another 5-day treatment.

If it is working the fish should show signs of recovery right around the five-day mark of the 10-day overall treatment.

This double attack will kill off most if not all of the biological filter. Water changes will need to be performed twice or more per day to keep up with water quality."

Eric, if you can, I would try to get the fish out of this tank and into a QT..this IMO is the best chance for it to survive.

HTH,
Kirk

 

[eww]

We will try again tomorrow. It is a very difficult tank to work in with the dimensions and rock scape. We have learned our lesson in this regard. I am thinking it probably more along the line of the stress from the move from a very large tank to a relatively small one. But in reality, what do we know? We have only been doing this for 5 months. We will give our best shot short of removing all the rock out of the tank and get him into a QT if at all possible. That brings up one more issue... The QT is smaller than the current tank he is in. Isn't this just going to compound the issue? if the size stress is the issue? I just don't understand how a healthy fish from one tank can develop an sickness like a bladder infection just from being moved.

 

[Ed Hahn]

My question is what foods are you feeding? That would be my guess also.

 

[eww]

We were feeding all the same things the previous owner was. Frozen Mysis, Nori and Rod's Food. It doesn't really matter now because as I feared, we woke up to it dead this morning. Thanks for all your responses though.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

As the tank gets more mature, transfers into it will be easier.
Be that as it may, moving bigger tangs is VERY stressfull on them and internal injuries can occur. Sorry for your loss, but "shrimp happens"

 

[eww]

It's actually not dead. It was laying on its side. We went to get it out and it started swimming again, I can't imagine this has a happy ending to it though. We tried for another 2 hours this morning to net it with no luck. It keeps diving under the rocks into the pistol shrimps holes. We will just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

 

[pewpewlazerbeam]

It's actually not dead. It was laying on its side. We went to get it out and it started swimming again, I can't imagine this has a happy ending to it though. We tried for another 2 hours this morning to net it with no luck. It keeps diving under the rocks into the pistol shrimps holes. We will just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

Hey if he has enough spunk to run from you for 2 hours he might not be so close to his deathbed as you thought. Sorry to hear your new friend is not doing well though. Im terribly stressed about my stressed fish too!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

It's actually not dead. It was laying on its side. We went to get it out and it started swimming again, I can't imagine this has a happy ending to it though. We tried for another 2 hours this morning to net it with no luck. It keeps diving under the rocks into the pistol shrimps holes. We will just have to wait and see what happens I guess.

OK, time to instruct on how to tell a dead fish from a live one.

Dead fish

Live fish

Your new tang is severly stressed. Before it looks like the dead fish, LEAVE IT ALONE!

 

[pewpewlazerbeam]

That clown likes to carpet surf he gonna be a dead guy too

 

[leebca]

I would highest on the list a poor acclimation procedure. 90 minute drip? Not good.

This is what should have happened: Fish Acclimation Procedure. This also explains why drip method is not the best choice for marine fishes.