another tank and stand upgrade

[Reefbound]

Last august my wife and I decided we would try saltwater... well that turned out to be a success (thankfully), but now after 10 years (first 9 it housed cichlids)the tank stand is showing some deterioration on the backside of the stand... So what do I do? I started to build my own stand, I have it all framed out and ready for sheeting and while I was putting the finishing touches on the framework it hit me... what was that you ask? Why not upgrade tank size too!!! So now Im looking at going from a 75 to a 90 gal, I would go larger but with the new lights I just got recently and space "we" decided a 90 gal would be large enough.

Now having never done this what would be the best way to go about this?

One of my main questions is should I use the same sand? And ,Im going to have to add some base rock then put my liverock on top of that with new water to make up for the xtra gallons, do you think this will cause a mini cycle and I know I could do this in one day or should this be done over time

 

[Meche]

:lol: and by "we" you mean "she" right? :rofl: :lol:

 

[cwby416]

I would definatly use new sand, and seed it with a few cups of your existing sand to speed things up. It will have a cycle, but the size of the cycle will depend more on the die off from the base rock you will use.

 

[Reefbound]

It will have a cycle, but the size of the cycle will depend more on the die off from the base rock you will use.

The baserock has been out water for sometime and has no life or lifeforms on it... its this stuff, and its dry.

http://www.toofishy.com/product.php?productid=80202&cat=258&page=1

so there should not be any die off,atleast from the baserock. I was looking at adding 60 to 70 lbs of this to my 130 lbs liverock.

Can this be done in one afternoon or do I need to do this over multiple days?

:lol: and by "we" you mean "she" right? :rofl: :lol:

:lol:

 

[Krish]

Congrats on the upgrade! What lighting do you have? A 90 gal is a little deep for some lights to penetrate all the way to the bottom to keep high light demanding corals so you may want to look into that first depending on what lights you have and what you plan on keeping. About the base rock and the small cycle, you should be fine man...And yes it can be done in a day not spaced over a few. Base rock will not have any die-off whatsoever so you will basically just be doing a transfer and the extra few gallons of water you will be adding, will sort of be like a nice little water change adding in freshly mixed water to dilute things somewhat. I would also go with a new sand bed. Stirring some sand beds may cause some issues for you so I would do just like Randy suggested and use a few cups to seed the new stuff. The only real issue I can see from it all is if your system largely relied on the sandbed you have now for filtration. When you remove it, it may cause an issue, but I couldn't say how much your system relies on it. Also, I wouldn't let the rock sit out too long before getting it into the new tank because the longer it catches air, the more chance you will experience a little die off which in turn may result in a small cycle. Just a few thoughts...Good luck on the upgrade

 

[Reefbound]

Congrats on the upgrade! What lighting do you have? A 90 gal is a little deep for some lights to penetrate all the way to the bottom to keep high light demanding corals so you may want to look into that first depending on what lights you have and what you plan on keeping.

I upgraded to the Nova extreme 432watt T-5 a couple of months ago and somethings in the tank are not fairing well with all the light,even the tops of the liverock are turning white.So I figured a 90 gal thats almost six inches taller would give me less light at the bottom of the tank.

Filtration, well know you have me worried. last month I completely removed my emporer 400. I have a sump with a filtersock and skimmer and thats it. also I still have an established small cpr refugium hanging on the side of the 75 which will be moved to the 90gal.
so that would tell me I may have a problem because mytank is now relying on the sand and rock for filtration, right?

 

[Krish]

LOL...My bad. I rememebr the thread with the debate between 1200w MH's vs 435 T-5's

so that would tell me I may have a problem because mytank is now relying on the sand and rock for filtration, right?

Yep...And that's all it should really rely on IMO. Live rock and live sand will perform all the necessary biological filtration and denitrification you will need. If the sand is definately going and you aren't totally ready to do the swap yet, then I'd slowly remove the sand bed now and allow the tank to adjust. By the time you are ready to do the swap, you should have the majority of the sand out and your tank would have already be adjusted to things. Just a thought. That's the way I would do it just like when a person removes bio-balls out of a wet/dry. Not all at once...Just little by little until it is all gone

 

[Reefbound]

Yep...And that's all it should really rely on IMO. Live rock and live sand will perform all the necessary biological filtration and denitrification you will need. If the sand is definately going and you aren't totally ready to do the swap yet, then I'd slowly remove the sand bed now and allow the tank to adjust. By the time you are ready to do the swap, you should have the majority of the sand out and your tank would have already be adjusted to things. Just a thought. That's the way I would do it just like when a person removes bio-balls out of a wet/dry. Not all at once...Just little by little until it is all gone

Then, In my case I would not be able to do this in one day then?

In your opinion what do you think would happen if I did the change using
40 lbs of new CaribSea Live Aragonite Substrate (like I have now,and what I started the 75gal with. ) Put the base rock in,Then top the the base with my 130lbs of liverock, I would use almost all of the water from the 75 and just add the 15 or so gallons that would be needed to topoff the new 90 then throw in the fish and corals... Do you think Im asking for trouble?

When I started this tank back in August of 05, I used 40lbs of Live Aragonite and 90lbs of liverock and cycled in two weeks (fishless and no shrimp piece)... I actually missed the cycle.
After two weeks I did a 20 gal water change and started to add fish from that day.
I wonder if that is what would or could happen this time and how detrimental would it be to the corals. Also If you did daily water changes you could slow the effects it would have on the corals ,no? (speculating)... Man, I just dont know if it going to be worth losing anything... Do I or Don't I ?


Ramble over...

 

[Krish]

Then, In my case I would not be able to do this in one day then?

You could still do it in a day IMO, just the process leading up to it may be a bit longer like slowly removing the sand bed. In any event, how deep is your sand bed anyways? A lot of people do a tank swap replacing their sand bed one shot without any problems. If your rock is doing a good job of handling the bioload, then the removal of the sand bed may not be so bad. If it is a dsb, then your system more than likely will be reying on it alot more.

In your opinion what do you think would happen if I did the change using
40 lbs of new CaribSea Live Aragonite Substrate (like I have now,and what I started the 75gal with. ) Put the base rock in,Then top the the base with my 130lbs of liverock, I would use almost all of the water from the 75 and just add the 15 or so gallons that would be needed to topoff the new 90 then throw in the fish and corals... Do you think Im asking for trouble?

I don't think so...Your tank is already cycled and so it's not like you are adding in new rock to cure and starting from scratch. You have aged water and cured live rock which should be able to handle whatever little cycle you may have in no time. The quicker the swap, the less die-off you will have.

Also If you did daily water changes you could slow the effects it would have on the corals ,no? (speculating)... Man, I just dont know if it going to be worth losing anything... Do I or Don't I ?

IMO, you may not and should not need them with an already established tank. Really and truthfully I think you will be set. It all depends on your sand bed and how much of a role it plays now in filtration, but if it is a ssb (which is what I'm thinking it is @ 40lbs in a 75gal) then your rock should be doing all the work. You may be able to just do the swap right out without any issues. Like I've said, people have done it before without any problems, but if you want to be safe, then I'd slowly remove the sand bed out of the 75gal first and then do the swap. HTH

 

[jesshimom]

I recently went from a 60 to a 90; added a little more rock, used all the same water and did not have any cycle. I doubt there will be a cycle using existing rock and existing water going from 75 to 90. We did it all in one day.

My lighting on the 60 was a 4 bulb T4 tek, but I ended up upgrading to a 6 bulb T5 tek light as I felt I needed more penetration although everything is happy when just 4 of the 6 are running.

 

[brianblack]

Ed if you are worried about anything bring it here and I will coral sit for ya or Steve could we each have multipul tank setups so we have the room. Else If you use the stuff from the 75 you should be OK. You do not have that large of a bio load anyway I don't think. Are you going to try to put it in the same space or a space next to it?? If you want help yell.

 

[Reefbound]

Krish75, Thanks...
My sand bed is two inch or under in spots, I have 40lbs of that live aragonite on the bottom of the 75,so not to deep. I plan on having the same amount in the 90. When you look under the stand you can see dim light.
So having this type of bed would say the rock is doing all the work, and the 90gal would be a go with a new sand bed seeded from the old,yes? or Would you use the sand from the 75

Brian,
Thanks for the offer of coral sitting... but if im going to do this its all coming out of the 75,getting the tank and stand out of that spot so the 90 can go in the same space. If I need to, I have that 40 breeder as my sump in the back room,I could put the corals in there for the duration but, I dont have enough containers to hold all the rock and water just yet,I have enough to hold 40gal so far. Would you use the sand from the 75 or no


jesshimom,
thanks, Im not concerned about a little cycle per say,its the affect on the corals that is bothering me... Did you use the same sand?

 

[Krish]

Krish75, Thanks...
My sand bed is two inch or under in spots, I have 40lbs of that live aragonite on the bottom of the 75,so not to deep. I plan on having the same amount in the 90. When you look under the stand you can see dim light.
So having this type of bed would say the rock is doing all the work, and the 90gal would be a go with a new sand bed seeded from the old,yes? or Would you use the sand from the 75

With a sand bed that shallow, you could just do your swap with re-using the same sand bed unless you personally want to change it for whatever reason (which if you do) just use a cup or two from your old sand bed to seed it. The way a ssb is taken care of is usually weekly vaccuming stirring it all up to get out all the nasties, so removing it to add it into another tank, is basically the same thing. I've done it before as well as many others. No biggie at all. A DSB, that's another story. I would never reccomend re-using one of those.

 

[brianblack]

If ya need just holding containers get some rubbermaids or trash containers. Cheap do the job and yes my sump system is made of em. As for the sand - I prolly would use it but don't disturb it till the very end cuz it will have lots of crap in it. just stir it a bit now and you will see what I mean. I would use it but after a little cleaning it get the sluge out.

Did ya buy the 90 yet?? Just wondering what the gain would be - think they are just higher than a 75. If you are gonna spend the money get a tank that is 4ft like the 75 but 24 inches to the back instead of 18. That is why I did not set up the 125 and bought the 210. Maybe the 125 could be a sump!! I do not know what size that would be but Steve's is a 140 but it is really high but 48 by 24 inches and I think like 31 high. So maybe a 120. yes AGA 120 Gallon 48x24x24 black-10120 oak-12120 and you can get it drilled from the factory. - your lights will be fine on a 90