Anyone want to help me?

[cornel]

Hi , my name is Cornel and I have a 500 gallon tropical freshwater tank with an overflow compartment, and a five chamber sump that I want to convert to a reef system. I have run the system successfully for over five years with very little maintenance and no problems.

Lighting:
The tank is lit with six florescent tubes, marine blue, flowglow, hi glow, plant growth and red etc.

Filtration:
Inside the tank I have a protein skimmer, about 40% freshwater live rock and a gravel bed (the pet shop kind for fresh water) of 50mm thick

The tank has a side overflow that I use as a mechanical filter by placing filter pads in the compartment.

Then water then gravitates into the sump, the first compartment is used just to collect the water, the second compartment has additional filter pads, the third and fourth compartment are filled with fine coral and shell mix, the fifth compartment if filled with Activated carbon, and the sixth compartment has my to return pumps in them.

Questions:
1. Will I have to change to metal halide lighting?
2. Is the aerobic bacteria in the live fresh water rock the same as in salt water, and do I have to change or clean them first?
3. Will I have to change my sand, or can I just add corral and shell to the current mixture?
4. Is it important where you place your protein skimmer.?
5. What is the correct setup for the sump, in what order should you place what?
6. Can I use the overflow compartment of the main tank as a Refugium.
7. What is the correct setup of a refugium, what sand do you use and do you require additional lighting for it.
8. Can someone send me a flow chart of how the tank should be setup.
9. Do I need UV Light and what size, capacity, strength etc?
10. I live at the coast, what are the pros and cons of using fresh sea water.?
11. Can I use reef that I harvest my self as live rock, and what do I remove from it? And how long does it take to spread to the other rocks?
12. When I harvest live sand, what should I lookout for?
13. Do I have to have clean my fresh top up water a reverse osmosis filter?
14. Do I quit now and just admit that I know nothing?

I’m patiently waiting for you to ruin my budget.

 

[Jiddy]

Whattup Cornel! I'll admit im not the smartest man on here, but im the best looking! Just kidding, i can answer some of your questions to get you started and when all the smartie's wake up, they can explain....

Questions:
1. Will I have to change to metal halide lighting?
Metal halides are very nice and very powerful, if you would like to keep all sorts of corals i would recommend these lights, but you dont HAVE to have these, if you would like to save money and only keep soft corals, you could get away with VHO lighting, but with a tank this size, my suggestion would be to go with MH lights, how deep is your tank?
2. Is the aerobic bacteria in the live fresh water rock the same as in salt water, and do I have to change or clean them first?
3. Will I have to change my sand, or can I just add corral and shell to the current mixture?
4. Is it important where you place your protein skimmer.?
You want to place your skimmer in an area with a high turnover rate to capture as much "bad stuff" as possible, i keep mine in the sump to hide its ugliness
5. What is the correct setup for the sump, in what order should you place what?
My overflow feeds water to my sump from the main tank, in my sump i have my skimmer and heater, at the end of the sump is my return pump which places my water back into the main tank
6. Can I use the overflow compartment of the main tank as a Refugium.
You could, but i think you will have trouble, not only for lighting issues but for blocking your flow, this could also start a clog which could creat a flood
7. What is the correct setup of a refugium, what sand do you use and do you require additional lighting for it.
8. Can someone send me a flow chart of how the tank should be setup.
9. Do I need UV Light and what size, capacity, strength etc? You dont have to have UV light, but it is nice to have a setup lying around for use with a ich outbreak (so ive heard)
10. I live at the coast, what are the pros and cons of using fresh sea water.?
Pro's-Natural and Cheap, Con's-Tranporting, contaminates
11. Can I use reef that I harvest my self as live rock, and what do I remove from it? And how long does it take to spread to the other rocks? I dont understand what your asking
12. When I harvest live sand, what should I lookout for? needles and contaminates
13. Do I have to have clean my fresh top up water a reverse osmosis filter? A RO unit is highly advisable for a reef tank because it allows for high water quality
14. Do I quit now and just admit that I know nothing? No, you dive in and get that monster of tank going

I’m patiently waiting for you to ruin my budget.

 

[cornel]

Thanks for the rappid responce...

 

[NaH2O]

Hi , my name is Cornel and I have a 500 gallon tropical freshwater tank with an overflow compartment, and a five chamber sump that I want to convert to a reef system. I have run the system successfully for over five years with very little maintenance and no problems.

Lighting:
The tank is lit with six florescent tubes, marine blue, flowglow, hi glow, plant growth and red etc.

Filtration:
Inside the tank I have a protein skimmer, about 40% freshwater live rock and a gravel bed (the pet shop kind for fresh water) of 50mm thick

The tank has a side overflow that I use as a mechanical filter by placing filter pads in the compartment.

Then water then gravitates into the sump, the first compartment is used just to collect the water, the second compartment has additional filter pads, the third and fourth compartment are filled with fine coral and shell mix, the fifth compartment if filled with Activated carbon, and the sixth compartment has my to return pumps in them.

Questions:
1. Will I have to change to metal halide lighting?
2. Is the aerobic bacteria in the live fresh water rock the same as in salt water, and do I have to change or clean them first?
3. Will I have to change my sand, or can I just add corral and shell to the current mixture?
4. Is it important where you place your protein skimmer.?
5. What is the correct setup for the sump, in what order should you place what?
6. Can I use the overflow compartment of the main tank as a Refugium.
7. What is the correct setup of a refugium, what sand do you use and do you require additional lighting for it.
8. Can someone send me a flow chart of how the tank should be setup.
9. Do I need UV Light and what size, capacity, strength etc?
10. I live at the coast, what are the pros and cons of using fresh sea water.?
11. Can I use reef that I harvest my self as live rock, and what do I remove from it? And how long does it take to spread to the other rocks?
12. When I harvest live sand, what should I lookout for?
13. Do I have to have clean my fresh top up water a reverse osmosis filter?
14. Do I quit now and just admit that I know nothing?

I’m patiently waiting for you to ruin my budget.

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

The first thing I think will help you is a good book, to go along with the advice you receive here. "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner is a wonderful book when you are just learning about marine aquariums. It covers a wide range of topics.

1. You don't have to have metal halide lighting, unless you want to keep higher light loving corals or anemones.
2. You'll need to recycle the tank once again, and give the tank a good cleaning prior to use.
3. I would change your substrate out. You will want to get any waste matter, etc out from the substrate. Ideally, if you want a substrate, then a better choice would be a sand, and not really a gravel, which is too large. Crushed coral has a tendency to trap detritus, so if you aren't diligent about siphoning and cleaning up, then they can lead to a nitrate problem.
4. You want your skimmer to get the "raw" water, which would be the first compartment of your sump (where your water drains to).
5. I don't think there is a right or wrong with a sump, other than getting the skimmer positioned right. Mine has 3 compartments. The first is for the skimmer; then an area for heaters, probes, liverock or algae; and finally the return pump.
6. I would try and incorporate your refugium in either the sump or separate vessel. If plumbing or something needed to be worked on in the overflow box, then you might cause a big disturbance (depending on what you would put in the overflow box). The overflow boxes, naturally will house pods and things away from the display, so they in essence become a refugium on their own.
7. Let's Talk About ~Refugiums~
8. Your circulation/flow pattern in the display is going to depend on tank dimensions, and also what your plans are for the tank. What do you plan on keeping?
9. You do not need a UV light to get started. Might be something you want down the road, but not a necessary piece of equipment. marineandreef.com/ UV Sterilizer Overview , and How to select a UV Sterilizer
10. 11. 12. For collecting water and sand, you'll definately want to be aware of where you're collecting from. I'm not sure about how far out from land you need to be when collecting water, and same with the sand. You will want to be aware of areas with run off or pollution. I really don't know much about using natural sea water, so I'll see if I can find some previous threads on it. I know we've had some discussions on the board. For collecting "reef" - I'm not sure if you mean corals or rock?
13. Reverse Osmosis/Deionized water is ideal, IMO, for top offs. It will allow for good quality water to be used instead of something you may introduce with tap water (depending on the quality of your tap water)
14. Don't quit! You'll love your new addiction!

I wanted to add that you will want to remove any "pads" from the tank, as these again have a tendency to trap detritus and become nutrient sources if they are not cleaned often enough.

Hope this helps get you going!

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF Cornel! I see Jiddy has already started helping you out so I'll see what I can add to it if anything

(1) Metal halides are a good option, but not necessarily the only option. People have had great success with using just T-5's to run a reef setup, but cost seems to be the greatest issue when you consider how many bulbs you would need to equal 1 halide bulb as well as how often they have to be changed. I use metal halides and love them and feel comfortable knowing I can support whatever I want.

(2) Aerobic bacteria I would think isn't the same, that's why most people toss out everything and start fresh when going from fresh to salt. (not positive about this one though, but feel this is the case)

(3) As for the sand, I'd personally say to start with new sand and not use what you had setup in a freshwater setup for some time now. I personally wouldn't take the chance and just go with a fresh new start here.

(4) As for the skimmer, I agree with Jiddy. You want your skimmer placed where it recieves the majority of the junk coming from the tank. This is where it will be more efficient at doing it's job.

(5) As for the sump, it is pretty much how you want to set it up, but most of the time you will see, pre-filter into first chamber of the sump where the skimmer is, then the fuge if you use one, and then the return chamber that pumps the water back into the tank. In between there you can add in your phosban reactors, carbon, heaters etc.

(6) Using an overflow for a fuge isn't necessarily the best idea. Pre-filters really aren't all that big to make it worth while using it as a fuge. I use a CPR overflow and to be honest, it maybe holds 2-3 mouth fulls of water which makes it pointless to try and use it for anything other than what it is intended for. Also, like Jiddy said, you don't want that to get clogged and prevent water from getting nto the sump.

(7) For the refugium again, it's a personal preference. Some people simply just put chaeto in it or another algae and a light above for it to grow. Some people like toss in a sand bed and live rock, and some people like miracle mud. Whatever the case may be, chances are you will have lighting and will have to determine if you wan the light to be on an alternate photoperiod from the tank or run 24/7 like some people do when keeping stuff like caulerpa so it doesn't go sexual on them.

(8) Flow chart, I'll have to go and dig up for you. Most imortant thing though is good coverage, good surface aggitation and random flow. This will allow for good oxygen/carbon dioxide exchange etc.

(9) UV lights are a personal thing. If you will be adding in a bunch of wild caught things etc which may carry parasite etc, then I'd use one or if you are concerned with algae spores in your water, then yeah. I personally never used one and haven't had any problems so far

(10) Fresh sea water is debatable. I live in the Bahamas and personally don't use it. But I have a friend that does as well as a few others here. Personal opinion as well, but the reason I don't use it is because you never know what you can be tossing in your tank. I prefer to be safe and just make my own water. Yeah, I will have to supplement everything not found in natural water, but I'm fine with that.

(11) Not sure what you totally mean here, but yeah you can get your own LR. You will have to cure it though because the rock will experience some die-off so you'll have to watch your ammonia, nitrite and nitrates during this time

(12) If you harvest your own live sand, you want to get it off of shore maybe close by a health reef, but definately away from human interference. Be careful with your own live sand because you can transfer some nasty stuff like parasites etc into your tank.

(13) You definately want to use ro/di water point blank. Unless you have wonderful tap water, make sure you use ro/di water

(14) Naw man...Don't quit. There are tons of us here willing to help. You will get sorted out in time. Just read all you can and ask anything your heart desires.

Hope you enjoy it here and I hope I've helped some. I'm still learning myself, but offer what I can when I can

 

[Krish]

Nikki beat me to it(LOL) If anything I said contradicts what Nikki said, go with her. She knows more than me be far

 

[returnofsid]

The only thing I'd add is that in a lot of areas, collecting your own live rock from the ocean is illegal. Check that aspect of it out and watch for bad critters!!!

 

[bc_slc]

Good focused answers to a bunch of good questions.

Help us out by telling us the dimensions of the tank (inches please) and give us an idea of what you would like to keep (Fish only, fish plus soft corals, fish plus hard corals and clams).

Mat

 

[jammet]

1. Will I have to change to metal halide lighting?

MH are very useful lights for keeping corals and the like, there are some things that find them to bright and do not do very well. That can be over come by placing them properly within the tank though. VHO's are very good lights as well to accent MH's or if you are keeping LPS or Softies or just fish they can provide enough light to do that.
2. Is the aerobic bacteria in the live fresh water rock the same as in salt
water, and do I have to change or clean them first?

No, I personally would buy all new rock (saltwater live rock). If you cleaned your freshwater rock really well you could reuse some of it for baserock maybe depending on what kind of rock it is, some might just disolve in to the tank though due to the high PH and salt content. Becareful in this area if you choose to keep some of your freshwater rock.

3. Will I have to change my sand, or can I just add corral and shell to the current mixture?

Go sand or bare bottom, bare bottom is nice for cleaning and the like. I personally really like the look of sand though.

4. Is it important where you place your protein skimmer.?

Skimmer as others have said need to be in a high flow area, most people put them in the first chamber of the sump. Main reason for that though is when you have a refugium and the skimmer is after that area it could suck up things before they enter the tank and they would never see the tank.
5. What is the correct setup for the sump, in what order should you place what?

Drain down in to sump > Skimmer > Refug > heater and other stuff > return pump

6. Can I use the overflow compartment of the main tank as a Refugium.

Not recominded, as others have said if it clogs its going to flood the tank. Use sump space, use the overflow for extra water volume.

7. What is the correct setup of a refugium, what sand do you use and do you require additional lighting for it.

I use an agronite sand and HO lighting


8. Can someone send me a flow chart of how the tank should be setup.



9. Do I need UV Light and what size, capacity, strength etc?

UV was answered a lot better than I can eariler.

10. I live at the coast, what are the pros and cons of using fresh sea water.?

Pros: Not really sure never tried it.

Cons: If there are things in the water that are inhospitable to the tank's creatures, they will die since they have no where else to go.

11. Can I use reef that I harvest my self as live rock, and what do I remove from it? And how long does it take to spread to the other rocks?

The first parts of the question, I do not know. The last part depends on what it is and how it is setup and what you want to spread. It also boils down a little bit to a previous question and answer with using sea water. Might bring something in to the tank that might be more harmful than good.

12. When I harvest live sand, what should I lookout for?

13. Do I have to have clean my fresh top up water a reverse osmosis filter?

It is recominded to use RO/DI for salt water tanks, it keeps a lot of problems out of the way. Depending on how good your tap water is (99% of the time its not good enough) you might not need it, but its better to be safe than sorry I think.

14. Do I quit now and just admit that I know nothing?

We all knew nothing at one point in time, so I say Welcome to the hobby and enjoy it!
It is a very beautiful hobby and I think with a fair amount of reading online and on the boards and I am sure that within a few months you will be on your way to a new reef tank. I cant wait to see pictures in a year or so on how well its doing!

 

[Reefdaddy1]

WELCOME!!!

Hey Guys its 500 Gallon tank. That would put it at about 30 inches in depth. I would defiantley run MH lights for this tank. Weather he is keeping SPS or Softies. That deep a tank would be required to have MH to at least with VHO supplementation.

As far sunstrate goes, You could either go Bare Baottom or run a 1 inch substrate accross the bottom. That would save ya some money going bare bottom.


As far as Collecting your own rock?? DONT, Live rock Collected is illegal. But you collect Base rock off shore. It may not be live, But it has some cool shapes and will have coraline growing on it if its seeded.

 

[MCary]

collecting your own live rock from the ocean is illegal

Live rock Collected is illegal

The guy's from South Africa. I'm not up on the live rock collecting laws there.

 

[Dragonfly]

The guy's from South Africa. I'm not up on the live rock collecting laws there.

It's a no no. Strict laws here as far as live rock and inverts is concerned. We are able to obtain permits for fish but is limited and not for commercial resale.

 

[NaH2O]

Dragonfly - are you guys limited to only a few stores that sell corals? Or are you able to get corals shipped in? I'm curious because when I spoke with Krish75, he said he can't get corals shipped to the Bahamas (correct me if I misunderstood, Krish!). I wondered what kind of restrictions are in South Africa from a hobbyist standpoint.

 

[Dragonfly]

Hi Nikki, LFS's here that sell marine livestock is limited. We have in most of the major cities, but for example in the city that I stay there are 2 of which one is reputable. The laws governing the import of livestock are strict which makes it difficult for them to get regular shipments. The cites and other permits that are issued are valid for 3 months at a time. We get livestock on a fairly regular basis, mainly from Indonesia, Singapore, Bali, Kenya, Solomon Islands etc. Very few shipments come in from the States because of the long transit times.
Also they battle to get decent SPS shipments in. Basically all the LPS and softies that you guy's get we get.
Fish wise also similar except things like Vlamingi Tangs, Achilles etc are very difficult to source.
Our coastline is quite diverse and is home to species like Zebrosoma Gemmatum (Scarce though, tank size) Moorish Idols, numerous butterfly and Angel species, Sailfin Tangs, wrasses, Goby's and lots of fish we see in the hobby. We can apply for permits which allows a hobbyist to catch and use fish for personal display purposes but not for commercial resale. As far as I know it is illegal to remove any coral and live rock.

 

[Krish]

I spoke with Krish75, he said he can't get corals shipped to the Bahamas (correct me if I misunderstood, Krish!).

You're right Nikki...Do you think it is because they rather me take them out of the ocean here? (LOL) Naw nothing marine at all is supposed to be imported, but it looks like you don't have to import anything to cause a problem in our waters. Take the lonfish I found for example...

 

[moortim]

Welcome cornel,
I have had freshwater for years and then bought a used salt tank, then I completely rebuilt it.
The best advice I could give is lots and lots of research. You should know what kind of live things you want to keep and then match your tank to them.
Here are a couple useful links:
This one has pictures of peoples filtration setups.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10264&highlight=setups

One all about lighting,

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14453&highlight=mh+t5

I hope this helps

Tim