Best Sump Layout

[YamahaF934]

I am starting to design a new sump and was wondering what is the best layout.

I only have room for one tank below the stand. Only have money for one return pump.

Here are two of my ideas.

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[mojoreef]

top one

 

[Krish]

You can also check out a few more ideas here Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums . Just go to the left column where it says varied sumps and browse through a few of them. Here's a pretty neat one similar to your top choice. Always liked this one http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/j/sump_model_j.html

 

[mojoreef]

Your Skimmer/media reactor and then your refugium are going to be competing for the same nutrients, so if you stack them inline with each other then one will suffer. SO if you run it as you have drawn it up in the first drawing the raw water will be availble to both export systems, so it just makes better sence and is more econimical.

In saying that though something you can do that we used to tell folks with this kind of setup is to put a valve on the refugium side, this way you can slow down the water flow going through it. Algae and the bacteria associated with the sand do a much better job when they have more contact time with the water. Also it will keep your bug larvae from being swept out to early.

hope it helps

Mojo

 

[mfinn]

I like the bottom one. It's the way I have mine setup now.
I believe, what one doesn't get, they other will. (Skimmer vs. refugium)
My carbon/gfo reactor sets above the sump, but draws water from the first area and returns it to the return pump area.

 

[Krish]

All of my sumps were similar to the diagram two as well. I never really ran a fuge as such so it really didn't matter in my case. My main focus was letting the skimmer get a shot at the incoming water first. In your case as Mike suggested, you want both the skimmer and the fuge to get a shot at the incoming water . I've noticed though with your design, the width of the skimmer chamber is compromised a bit by stacking both the fuge and skimmer section side by side so you may run into a problem fitting a skimmer in there with a big footprint. In a case like that, you could probably do something like in the sketch below. Put a "T" on your incoming water that would branch out the incoming raw water to the two outer chambers (skimmer and fuge) and then just let the two drain back to the center of the sump where your return is. Just a thought. Would hate for you to layout your sump like in your first picture and the skimmer not fit so I figured I'd toss out that idea.




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[spllbnd2]

I like this layout personally. I plan on a similar layout for my 65 that I am currently building. Plan is to have 2 seperate drains come in from both the left and right sides.

As seen in the photo, left side will house skimmer section, right side will house the refugium section and the middle section will be the return section.

With this layout the skimmer is not feeding the fuge clean skimmed water. The fuge will actually have unskimmed water come in from the main display. This not only helps with fuge filtration but should also help with keeping pod population up a bit. All in theory anyways.

 

[Dalbery]

A lot of this depends on if you plan on running an internal pump or an external pump. Please provide this info. Either way I also would go with 2 drain lines. One to feed skimmer side of sump and one with a valve to control flow through your fuge.
Thanks

 

[jrgilles]

krish's drawing is what I like, with a ball valve to regulate the amount of water going through to the skimmer. There is more info on that design at melevsreef, which I think was listed above.

When you plumb it all together, might also want to think about a drain line. I have a splitter on the return line that goes to a ball valve and hose barb. I then have a flexible hose attached to that. For water changes, I can use the return pump. Can fill up a 5 gallon bucket of water in 20 or 30 seconds. Makes it very easy. Not sure what size tank you are putting this on though

 

[mcoomer]

My sump is set so that the tank empties into the skimmer compartment, water moves through the center section where my macro lives, and then to the return section which also housed my media reactors.

Mike

 

[spllbnd2]

Gate valves would be a bit better IMO rather than a ball valve. Done to much research in regards to all the plumbing stuff and everyone seems to almost always mentions the following,

Gate valves let you precisely dial in a certain amount.
Ball valves are really meant to be an on/off valve.

Wish I had my plumbing done already. I could show pictures rather than try and explain.

Let me try and explain a bit anyway. If you look at my photo there will be a gate valve on each of the inlets from the main display tank. Thus allowing me to dial in a precise amount of flow into both the skimmer section and the fuge.

I will have a gate valve on the skimmer outlet so to be able to precisely dial in the skimmer.

From there all flow goes into the return chamber with yes you got it, has a gate valve to precisley regulate the flow if necessary. I will also have like some mentioned, a 4 way in line with the return plumbing. Thus the return will be feeding the reactors as well as a ball valve to do water changes with. Very handy from what I've heard. And this design gets rid of one extra pump in the sump because the reactors are being feed of the return.

 

[jrgilles]

Gate valves would be a bit better IMO rather than a ball valve. Done to much research in regards to all the plumbing stuff and everyone seems to almost always mentions the following,

Gate valves let you precisely dial in a certain amount.
Ball valves are really meant to be an on/off valve.

Wish I had my plumbing done already. I could show pictures rather than try and explain.

Let me try and explain a bit anyway. If you look at my photo there will be a gate valve on each of the inlets from the main display tank. Thus allowing me to dial in a precise amount of flow into both the skimmer section and the fuge.

I will have a gate valve on the skimmer outlet so to be able to precisely dial in the skimmer.

From there all flow goes into the return chamber with yes you got it, has a gate valve to precisley regulate the flow if necessary. I will also have like some mentioned, a 4 way in line with the return plumbing. Thus the return will be feeding the reactors as well as a ball valve to do water changes with. Very handy from what I've heard. And this design gets rid of one extra pump in the sump because the reactors are being feed of the return.

Yea, gate valves are definately better. Were it a control for a herbie drain or something, I'd definately say fork out the extra money for a gate valve. Was thinking for a split off to a fuge section, you really don't need that much control. Ball valves are harder to dial in if you need an exact flow, but for a purpose like this I figured it doesn't matter too much.

If I were to repeat my plumbing, I would add a gate valve on my main drain line to replace the ball valve there, but don't think I would mess with the ball valve running my fuge. Seems to do the job just fine. just mho.

A good idea to feel the reactors from the return pump. I have some maxijets doing that job now.

I also have another branch off the return line that is on a ball valve and just returns water to the sump (makes the sump a closed loop.)

Lets me dial down flow to the tank if needed without adding head pressure onto the pump (although I have read that it is ok to add head pressure by putting a valve on the return). Also lets me raise the water level in the sump before water changes (as the water would rather stay low if I open the valve, adding more water to the sump, which gives me the proper amount to drain out for water changes.)

 

[YamahaF934]

Wow, thanks for the great ideas. I am planning on having an internal return pump. I will start the planning and keep updated.

 

[Krish]

Sounds great!! Good luck!!

 

[the6goat6man6]

i don't have any experience, my display dumps t0 my fuge, then to the skimmer, then the return? I fugured the fuge would use what was needed and the skimmer would handle the rest, like i said not much experience. I got thrown into this hobby, the wrong way and have paid for it, but slowly learning I think?

 

[Krish]

i don't have any experience, my display dumps t0 my fuge, then to the skimmer, then the return? I fugured the fuge would use what was needed and the skimmer would handle the rest, like i said not much experience. I got thrown into this hobby, the wrong way and have paid for it, but slowly learning I think?

We will get you on the right track here...No worries.

 

[jrgilles]

In an ideal world, you would have slow flow going into the fuge that then drains via gravity back to the display. This way the pods don't have to go through a return pump to get from the fuge to the tank. That said, I'm not sure it is a common way to do it.

You DO probably want to put your fuge right before the return pump though. I wouldn't want the fuge to feed into the protein skimmer section, as it seems like the protein skimmer would do some damage to any pods that get in there.

The best in sump setup I think is to split your drain line, and have the bulk of the water go to the skimmer section and then return section, and have a lower flow split off the tank drain line and go into a fuge, that then drains into a return section. That would look something like this:

Sump - Model E

Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

that will allow you to separate and control the flow through the fuge. You don't want it too fast, or you'll wash a lot of the pods away.

If you want to do it in an inline setup, I would go from the tank drain->skimmer section->fuge->return section, so you are not skimming your pods.

Depending on your setup, you might figure out you can't do as much in your sump as you want. I was originally trying to get a fuge in my sump, but just couldn't fit it all.

I ended up adding a fuge on the side of my tank. I split the drain line, it goes to the fuge which then gravity drains into the return chamber. The bulk of the water goes to the skimmer section and then to the return chamber. Kind of like the links above, but I moved the fuge out from the sump.

Benefit of this is you don't have to cram everything into one small place, and you can keep your sump in the dark (keeps the sump WAY WAY cleaner, having no light reaching it.

Here are some pics of my setup

Fuge Plumbing:
Picasa Web Albums - Rob Gillespie

Water into the fuge via gravity (bottom open tube) and 2 drains up top (one is flood protection, haven't used it yet.)
Picasa Web Albums - Rob Gillespie

Front view with macro in the fuge
Picasa Web Albums - Rob Gillespie

 

[the6goat6man6]

Well, i told the DIY approach. I luckily have a closet next to my display, and i used 2 20gal slim line heavy duty trash cans(brand new). So in effect my fuge is tall and skinny, about 24 in water column! and it has a gravity fed over flow out (u-tube syphon style). Then into another chamber with the skimmer, its a square 5gal pal, to sepperate the return and allow some wash buy? I tried to make flow throgh the fuge as less turbulent as poss. When i look in there i have lots of critters on there, lots, some are pretty big!?

So when i set my next one up, if i put the fuge close to the ceiling and use it's own "return" pump then let it gravity pack to the display? Better? Cause i am building a sepperate room for my addiction! LOL

 

[the6goat6man6]

i don't like the idea of craming every thing into one small"tank". I'd rather use sepperate tanks and over flow them to gether. Flow through my fuge is pretty calm considering it get all flow from display, i think it's height has alot to do with it. I will work on a pic

 

[jrgilles]

Sounds good. If you can avoid cramming things into one tank, all the better. If the fuge flow went straight to the display, that is ideal I think (although not what I have done.)

I bet my return pump kills a good chunk of the pods that come through the fuge. Also the pods probably don't like being protein skimmed. Sounds like you have the right idea down.

Good luck.