calc, alk and kalk.. what to do

[jezzeaepi]

A few weeks ago I finally got my hands on an aquarium controller, an ac jr(thanks barrierreef!), and can now monitor my ph all the time. What I found was disturbing. Previous to the controller I tested my PH once or twice a week, but always during the day to night time hours(never first thing in the morning). It appeared to me that my Ph was pretty stable at around 8.1-8.3. Now that i have the PH monitor I can see that the PH actually swings from 7.95 to 8.45 .. a huge swing by any measure. Now I am looking for ways to correct this.

What I am doing now:
For the past 7 months I have been using ESV's 2 part additive. My alk seems to hover around 2.7-3.1, my calc 380-420, and my mag at 1225. Whenever I add the alk part of the solution, the tank rises by .1 to .2 ph almost instantly. I try to add it twice daily, but with my schedule sometimes its only once a day.


I do not have a sump, so a calcium reactor looks like its not going to be an option. I do not have a refugium either so I cant throw that on a reverse light cycle. I also do not run an auto top off. I imagine though my solution here is going to have something to do with a doser and a container of kalkwasser? I know next to nothing about kalkawasser and dosers, so if anyone could give me some advice/links Id would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Jesse

 

[LakeEd]

Jesse,

Kalkawasser comes in a power. You can add up to 2tsps per gallon (that fully saturatates your water at that level). You would mix it up, then let it sit to settle. After it has settled, you can "Drip" all but about the last 1" of what ever container you are dripping from. As you noticed with your two-part... it will slightly raise your pH as its added.

That being said, something as simple as this container would work;

You would set this up with a slow drip at night... shutting it off in the morning. You would need to play with the drip rate, and use this water you're adding to your tank to take place of what evaporates daily.

I used type type of dripper for about a year very successfully. Yes, its more maintenance, because you have to mess with it every night, then shut it off again in the morning... but it does work.

 

[jezzeaepi]

I was looking around at how I would automate that Ed, and came accross the litermeter3? Have you heard good things about it? Is there perhaps something thats similair but not 330 dollars? Thats a little more then I wanted to spend to solve this problem, but if thats the only doser pump worth using I guess Ill get it.
The dripping container is a really good idea I just dont trust myself enough to not forget it. I already have enough of a problem filling up containers with RO/DI =P

My other question about kalk is, do you add other trace elements when use it? I know that with the B-Ionic 2 part it claimed to have all those trace elements in it already so I never bothered dosing them before.

 

[MikeS]

You can automate kalk addition to the tank, but can be risky and there are plenty of horror stories out there about these systems failing and flooding the tank with high pH kalk....IMO if your system is small and doesn't require automation, do it manually, it's no more difficult than adding ESV2 manually anyway....

Your pH swing isn't that abnormal at all....both values are within safe ranges for the reef tank. And there is no evidence out there at all that pH swings within reasonable levels are harmful to the reef tank. The pH is going to shift throughout the course of the day, based on many different factors....the best guard against it is good gas exchange and a good alkalinity level....

Kalk won't have a big impact on trace elements that I'm aware of, as long as you are keeping up with regular water changes. Kalk will impact Mg levels as it tends to like to form calcium carbonate in the tank...so watch the Mg level in your tank, test it monthy and keep it at NSW values based on your SG....

I'm going to move this to the Chemistry forum because of the topic nature, and also Boomer may have some more insight into your question...

MikeS

 

[LakeEd]

I always hope that my pH doesn't swing more than about .15 during the day. Currently I don't have to dose Kalk with my Calcium Reactor handling my load... and having my Fuge on a reverse lighting cycle has helped for me now also.

As for the Litermeter's... I've heard nothing but good about them! They are on the spendy side, but the 2 people that I know that personally own them, swear by them!

There is a cheaper alternitive, however it would require probably a good digital timer to run it from;

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium..._3000_sp3000_niveaumat_reef_doser.asp?CartId=

This little doser runs at a set rate, not controllable. However, some adjustment time with a digital timer, turning it on/off several times during your lights-off period... and it may work.

As for trace elements... I do weekly 35-gallon water changes (about 15% of my total water volume), so have never worried much about trace elements. Most salts out there do a fairly good job of replentishing those trace elements for us (at least... so I've read).

 

[jezzeaepi]

I do have a ac JR, so I could use that as my digital timer. Thats certainly a lot cheaper then the litermeter and should work fine for what Im trying to do, thanks for the link.

So now that I have the pump and timer part out of the way, what is the best way to contain my kalk? All I need is a bucket, some ro/di and kalk powder and Im good to go? I have heard of "kalk stirrers" and wondered If I needed one of those to keep the kalk from settling?

This is working out well thanks a ton Ed. Once I figure out my kalk holding solution its just a matter of figuring out what concentration of kalk water Ill need to maintain my alk and clalc. Well that and buying everything. Lol damn this hobby... Just spent a ton on a new t5 fixture on the ac jr 2 weeks ago. I guess its ramen noodles for a month!

Congrats on being the Motm Ed. You are very helpfull and kind and it was well deserved.

 

[LakeEd]

Jesse,

The choice of "what to use to contain your Kalk" is entirely up to you, and your pocketbook at this time! You can be as inexpensive as using any plastic container you happen to have around the house (even an empty gallon milk jug works)... to getting a Kalk-Reactor, which stirs.

I happen to do ALL of my reefing, with only "OUT OF POCKET MONEY"... or I would of maxed out my cards long ago! LOL This being said, I would most likely opt for the "what ever plastic container I have around the house" (as I did with my 75gallon tank) to conserve money for Corals.

As for figuring out what concentration of Kalk you will need... start out with about 1tsp per gallon. Check your Calcium & Alkalinity levels in your tank... then dose for a day. Check levels again. If they are remaining constant... you're good where you are. If they are slowly dropping, bump up the Kalk concentration to 1 1/4 tsps per gallon... and test again. Just remember, you do not want to go more than 2tsps per gallon, because you will then be at saturation (just means any more than that and you will start precipitating calcium in your tank... which is waisting).

Thanks for the comment at the end there. I am just helping with those things that I've learned about from people just like me here on Reef Frontiers. I think its the entire Reef Frontiers community that deserves that MOTM!

 

[mungus]

I do not have a sump, so a calcium reactor looks like its not going to be an option.

jezzeaepi FWIW you can get HOT CA reactors from MRC. He makes some pretty nice stuff. I have had a few of his products and they are very well built.

http://www.myreefcreations.com/cahot.htm With the ph controller on your ac jr they would make a nice pair. Just thought I would throw it out there for ya.

Brian

 

[MikeS]

As for figuring out what concentration of Kalk you will need... start out with about 1tsp per gallon. Check your Calcium & Alkalinity levels in your tank... then dose for a day. Check levels again. If they are remaining constant... you're good where you are. If they are slowly dropping, bump up the Kalk concentration to 1 1/4 tsps per gallon... and test again. Just remember, you do not want to go more than 2tsps per gallon, because you will then be at saturation (just means any more than that and you will start precipitating calcium in your tank... which is waisting).

Actually, the dosage of kalk per gallon in your kalkwasser mix won't have any bearing on it percipitating out in your actual tank...there are other factors that can cause this in the tank, but that's not really one of them. I think what LakeEd meant is that putting more than 2tsp per gallon in your kalk mix is a waste because at this level, your kalk mix is basically at saturation, the rest just falls out of suspention in the mix itself, not in the tank.

MikeS

 

[LakeEd]

Thank you Mike! A much better way with words than I found to put it!

 

[MikeS]

Thank you Mike! A much better way with words than I found to put it!

Not a problem, I knew what you meant...

MikeS

 

[jezzeaepi]

"I happen to do ALL of my reefing, with only "OUT OF POCKET MONEY"... or I would of maxed out my cards long ago!"

I was jokin about the noodles, I try to do the same. I feel though that if my tank had it its way Id be eating ramen =P

I was trying to figure out if I should get a stirrer or use the container idea and came accross this article here: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.php

Seems like the simple container does just fine.

 

[LakeEd]

Ohhhh, it would be very simple to just buy buy buy... then worry about it when the bills came in, thats why I have forced myself to study and ask questions... while I'm waiting on payday!

Sometimes, simple is best. I came across that article a year or so ago... and realized what I was "able" to do because of my budget ended up being just fine... and why I can recommend a simple container now.

It may not look as impressive as a Kalk-Reactor... but should work every bit as good for you.

 

[Boomer]

I don't seen any reason yet to jump in, you guys are doing good on your own If you have any question just hit me

 

[jezzeaepi]

The pump and the kalk showed up today. Now I just need to pick up some tubing and a bucket and im set!
Is there some sort of conversion calculator to figure out how much I need to add per day? Right now Im adding 17~ ml a day of the esv's 2 part to my 40 gallon tank. If Im adding 1/4 gallon a day of top, then how concentrated should my kalk top off be?

Peace

 

[MikeS]

I'd say start with fully saturated kalk (2tsp/gal RO) kalk mix replacing all topoff water...(make sure your tank is starting with good NSW values, ie 1.026 SG, 420 Ca, 3.0 mq/L Alk and 1250-1300ppm Mg)...monitor your Ca, Alk, and pH levels daily, and your Mg levels bi-weekly to make sure you are not exceeding what you need or dramatically affecting your water chemistry. Watch your livestock for adverse changes...

MikeS

 

[jezzeaepi]

So I am baffled. Everythng ran perfectly last night and it did absoultely nothing for my ph. In fact, I think my ph DECREASED more then normal....... I am so not pleased right now.

 

[DonW]

So I am baffled. Everythng ran perfectly last night and it did absoultely nothing for my ph. In fact, I think my ph DECREASED more then normal....... I am so not pleased right now.

How are you dosing the kalk. Are you slowing dosing over time or are you just topping off.

Don

 

[jezzeaepi]

Here is where I am at now, hopefully someone can see my mistake.

I have a 5 gallon IO bucket. I put in 5 gallons of water then 10 tsp of ESV kalkwasser powder. I sealed it up and let it sit for a day. Yesterday I drilled a hole big enough for airline tubing and ran that to my aquadoser. The aqua doser pumps for 5 minutes every 2 hours that the tank is not lit for a total of 35 minutes. This is supposed to be equal to .4 gallons. .4 gallons is about 1.17% of my total water volume. Adding 1.25% is supposed to raise ph by .6 but when I awoke I found my tank at 7.7.

Do I have bad kalk powder? Was I supposed to "mix in" the powder? I was under the impression that it dissolved and that was the point of leaving it to sit.

 

[DonW]

Here is where I am at now, hopefully someone can see my mistake.

I have a 5 gallon IO bucket. I put in 5 gallons of water then 10 tsp of ESV kalkwasser powder. I sealed it up and let it sit for a day. Yesterday I drilled a hole big enough for airline tubing and ran that to my aquadoser. The aqua doser pumps for 5 minutes every 2 hours that the tank is not lit for a total of 35 minutes. This is supposed to be equal to .4 gallons. .4 gallons is about 1.17% of my total water volume. Adding 1.25% is supposed to raise ph by .6 but when I awoke I found my tank at 7.7.

Do I have bad kalk powder? Was I supposed to "mix in" the powder? I was under the impression that it dissolved and that was the point of leaving it to sit.

You have to mix it, then let it settle.

Don