Can This Be The "Magic Bullet" to Reefkeeping??

[Krish]

I've been spending less time posting and more time reading and researching lately partly in an effort to understand the "why's" and "how's" of reefkeeping and also to learn more about the hobby itself. During my reading, I came across something that got some things spinning in my head and I thought it would make for a good discussion so here we go...

So what if wet/dry's weren't so bad after all? IMO, NOTHING at all can really come remotely close to them in doing what they do best which is converting toxic ammonia produced from stuff like fish waste into less toxic nitrite and then into even less toxic nitrate in a really short amount of time. This is why they are so good for FO systems. The problem with wet/dry's though is that this is where it all stops with them so you end up with an accumilation of nitrates over time as a wet/dry has no way of performing denitrification (thus the term nitrate factory). So what if we were able to incorporate something that could work hand in hand with a wet/dry that would take things a step further into breaking down nitrates by either consuming them or converting them into nitrogen where it can be removed from our systems? Something that can do this just as efficiently and quickly as a wet/dry breaks down ammonia and nitrite.

I came across something called bio-pellets. Never heard of them before until I stumbled across them while reading. I dug a bit deeper into what they actually were and here is a description I got on it.

"NP-reducing BioPellets are composed of biologically degradable polymers that can be placed in a fluidized filter or filter canister. The pellets will allow aerobic growth of bacteria which consequently will consume nitrate and phosphate simultaneously. The bacteria will use up the carbon from the BioPellets, whilst nitrogen and phosphorus are taken from the water as nitrate and (ortho)phosphate. This conversion of organic BioPellets (together with inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus) into microbial biomass is called immobilization. In addition, anaerobic layers will develop, resulting in additional denitrification".

NP Bio Pellets are a unique carbon based polymer that doubles as a substrate and food source for aerobic and anaerobic bacteria. Like adding a liquid carbon source such as Vodka or VSV, we still cannot control what bacteria are growing–however, these pellets should inherently provide more control through the location that the bacterial growth occurs (on the pellets!). It has been referred to as the Solid Vodka method for the large bacterial biomass that can be generated and then exported via protein skimming

Also, here is a write up on how to use them in your system What are Bio-Pellets & How to Use them | CoralVue


So if these things actually do what they say they do, then this almost seems like the ticket to putting to rest the never ending battle of trying to find a way provide full biological filtration effectively, efficiently and quickly. Wet/dry doing what they do best in a short amount of time through the first 2 stages of biological filtration (ammonia coverted to nitrite and then nitrite converted into nitrate) and then the biopellets to finish off the cycle with the added benfit of removing phosphates as well.


Thoughts??

 

[Skimmy]

well, make sure that you mention that it's best to use a pretty decent skimmer with bio-pellets ,
and to direct the outflow of the pellet reactor to the skimmer inlet...
I've been running pellets for over a year now, and I say so far so good, it did totally outcompete the minor amount of algae in my system
until i started to purposefully overfeed because of a fish addition...
i also did get small spots of bacteria in the tank, but they were very small, greyish, and mostly unnoticable... kinda slimey though...
I think the ultimate combo is skimmer, bio-pellets in a reactor, GAC/GFO in reactor, and refugium.
but i think the pellets work well enough to merrit experimenting with a wet/dry, biopellet, skimmer, GAC combo, so basically, the same set up, just pick either the fuge or wet/dry for nitrification of ammonia.

 

[Krish]

Didn't realize these bio-pellets have been out for so long, but I have been out of the loop of things for a bit . I kinda like the idea of running a wet/dry, skimmer and these pellets along with of course liverock if they work that good. I've always loved wet/dry's because they are just so efficient at doing what they do best, but just hate their end product so I could never use one with a saltwater setup. Freshwater tanks, they are a dream come true. This is where you get these power filters coming out with the bio-wheels. Just smaller scaled wet/dry systems. The things rock at reducing ammonia and nitrite quickly and can support a pretty good sized load. If you can just get something as efficient at reducing nitrates, that would rock!! :rockon:

 

[spllbnd2]

I've been thinking about using Bio Pellets with my 65 that I'm building. That along with GAC, GFO, UV, Fuge and Skimmer and I figure I'll be good to go. Thanks for the great read Krish. I'll have to read the link that you provided.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Krish]

I've been thinking about using Bio Pellets with my 65 that I'm building. That along with GAC, GFO, UV, Fuge and Skimmer and I figure I'll be good to go. Thanks for the great read Krish. I'll have to read the link that you provided.

Cheers,
Alex

No problem Alex!! I want to dig more into these pellets to see what they are all about. Never heard of them prior to this thread or if I did, I didn't take notice LOL!

 

[spllbnd2]

No problem Alex!! I want to dig more into these pellets to see what they are all about. Never heard of them prior to this thread or if I did, I didn't take notice LOL!

Yeah, they've been out on the market for some time now. I've been doing some research myself in the pros and cons of them and from everything I am reading they see to be a good thing. And very low maintenance too. From what I undertsand.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Krish]

Is this different from the Zeovit I hear people talking about?

 

[spllbnd2]

Is this different from the Zeovit I hear people talking about?

Yes it is different than the Bio Pellets. That system uses Zeolite rocks. I use those same Zeolite rocks for odor control near tha catbox and in the crawlspace to keep any odors in check.

Here's a link all about the Zeovit system and the way it works. With that system you are always adding stuff to the tank. I was looking into that until I read about all the little additives.

http://www.korallen-zucht.de/files/zeoguide_103_english-1.pdf

 

[Krish]

Haha! We are waiting on Frankie to start the Zeovit thread now!!


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[mojoreef]

Yea I was looking at them at the Seamax, got a little bit of an explaination on them also. From what I was told anyway your explanation was right on.

So when you use a system like this (the new zeovit concept seems to follow the same principle) is tha tyou are giving the bacteria an artifical energy source for respiration, in this case carbon bound up in the pellets. This allows them to grow in population and thus look for available things (like N or P ) to reduce. So basically your taking nutrients that are free in the tank and having them bound up to biologicals (bacteria in this case). So in theory this is ok, but you have to dig a little deeper. So as we know about keeping reef tanks and similar is that bacteria population are normally in a good balance based on the available food to them. In adding the carbon source you are screwing with that balance, so you will get a much higher population of bacteria then your tank can sustain.

SO now you are left with a bunch of extra bacteria (and the nutrients they have bound to themselves) with out a natural balance of food for them. Now just because the N and/or P bound up in bacteria does not mean your exporting or getting rid of the nutirents. In looking at a working form of this the bacteria (as in the zeovit) tend to form a biofilm on the pellets themselves, (I believe they call this mulm??) anyway In my opinion you need to get rid of that as it forms. So perhaps having the pellets output feed directly into a skimmer, so the skimmer can export it. You have to keep in mind that the life cycle of the bacteria is short and if they are just left to die they will put all the nutients they just bond up right back into the tank.

So with out really digging into their make up or structure I would have to caution folks on their use. So here are a couple of things to keep in mind.

> You are artifically creating an over population of bacteria in your tank which cannot be sustained with the available food in your system. So you must remember that with out you constantly adding this artifical source your going to have some issues coming off of it. Kind of like coming off an addiction.

>That even though the bacteria are binding up what ever N/P they can find in the system because they are now on crack, you are not exporting them and thus not the nutrients they bind to their matrix. I was told that it is suggested that you release this so called mulm back into the tank to feed corals and such. My thoughts personally would be not to do this and to just have a skimmer or something similar to physically remove it. At least then you have exported what you have bound up in biologicals.

>In using this product as with dosing vodka or any other form of carbon into your tank, you are skewing the biological balance in your system. I could come up with a bunch of possible things that could go wrong, stripping out to many nutrients from your tank and starving other biologicals such as corals, Big swings in available nutrients and then bacteria and algae blooms if you are not maintaining it properly and so on. So for this I would suggest enetering this method very slowly, kind of like staging the way you start using this and taking time to see how it effects your system prior to ramping up. Of course do the same thing when getting out of using them.

Anyway just some stuff to keep in mind when trying stuff like this

Mojo

 

[spllbnd2]

Yes. That is how the system works. And they do state that the output of the Bio Pellets should be right into the skimmer section of the filtration system so as to get rid of that mulm.

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Krish]

Thanks for the info Mike! After reading that I think I prefer "old school" to this. I rather my tank form it's own bacterial colonies depending on the available food source provided for them in my tank and let the tank find it's own balance naturally. Almost seems like more work using these pellets. Cool concept, but doesn't appeal to me. Atleast not at this point. We need to get Frank in here to talk about Zeovit.

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[mojoreef]

Frank is not what I would call a full fledged zeoguy. If I remember correctly he kind of uses the zeo exactly the same as the bio pellets, but I think he also doses bacteria? I am not trying to either promote or discourage the use of the bio pellet thing, just trying to lay out an understanding of it and then some caution whe jumping into it.

Mojo

 

[Krish]

Frank is not what I would call a full fledged zeoguy. If I remember correctly he kind of uses the zeo exactly the same as the bio pellets, but I think he also doses bacteria? I am not trying to either promote or discourage the use of the bio pellet thing, just trying to lay out an understanding of it and then some caution whe jumping into it.

Mojo

Definately. It is good to get out all the pros and cons as manufacturers don't usually mention the cons. If they did, their products would never make it in the industry. Skimmy runs the pellets though he says for about a year and seems to like it. I guess it all depends on what approach you want to take. Being the anal OCD kind of person I am about certain things, I can't see it being something I wouldn't want to mess with by the sounds of it.

 

[Frankie]

Yeah, running a zeovit system and doing a current build around it has labeled me wrong for sure. I am into the zeovit system, I like the challenge of learning the chemistry of it, the husbandry is perfect and understand it's mechanic's but I do not advocate it like some do.
The hobby is complicated enough, I am more about people learning about what their doing now, then change.

The biopellets have a place in this hobby from what I can understand about them. The problem I have with it is the polymers they are formed of. plastic is plastic. We should all cut back

But really skimmy hit it in his first post, it's all about how good your skimmer is working and removing that mulm. Water changes weekly is something I would highly recommend with at least 20%.

If you note any sudden growth in nuisance algae stop the use of them immediately. Your overloading your bio load with dead and dyeing bacteria. Your skimmer is not efficient enough to remove the amount of "mulm" that is being produced.

As with the zeovit system, for existing systems changing over to it, there is a break-in time running the reactor that produces this bacteria power house. 3 hours on, 3 off. This is not a break-in time for the reactor though, it is for the existing aquarium getting use to the stripped out water. This can take up to a year for most tank inhabitants. I don't know how they came up with this number, I am sure it was through trial and error because it works. I suggest doing the same with the biopellet reactor.

BTW, I thought I would toss the latest ideas in biopellet realm out there for all those running them. I can do a fast DIY thread on converting your current reactors if this is the next evolution.

Eductor powered biopellet reactor now available in the US

 

[Frankie]

Not to sure about this new reactor. With that type of force your limiting the time for the bacteria to populate on the pellets. Maybe with a timer controlling as I mentioned above, but the time may be longer since the pellets are being hammered harder then a zeovit reactor does.

My big question is where do the polymers go as the pellets are being consumed and how does it affect the phosphates after going into solution? What are the long term effect of this polymer breaking down within the system?

 

[Krish]

Good points!! My main concern is them releasing phosphates and nitrates back into the water. Almost like running a macro algae and have it die on you before exporting it.


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