Chiller or Air Conditioner??

[Jan]

I'm wondering what I should buy...

I have a split level house with a family-room downstairs (built 1/4 of the way underground in the front of the house due to a little hill that we're on). This room used to be cooler than the rest of the house but now it's warmer due to my 2 tanks (120 and 30 gallon). This family room is the only room downstairs except for a bathroom and our garage.

The temp on my 120 tank stayed around 77F all winter, but lately it's been getting up to 80-81 in the late afternoon. My lighting is 2 - 175 watt Iwasaki halides plus 2 actinic T-5's.

Since the family room is not too large, do you agree with the thinking that I could substitute an airconditioner (the sit-in-the-window kind) for a chiller? I have added a 6" fan mounted above the sump to cool the surface of the sump, and it has made only ~1 degree difference. Since the weather is getting warmer now I need to go ahead and buy my air conditioner, if that's what I'm going to do.

Related question: if I were to install a chiller instead of an air conditioner, would that prevent the ambient room temperature from getting as warm as it is now? It's much warmer than it has been other years, now that I have the tanks in there.

Thanks

Jan

 

[DonW]

I'm wondering what I should buy...

I have a split level house with a family-room downstairs (built 1/4 of the way underground in the front of the house due to a little hill that we're on). This room used to be cooler than the rest of the house but now it's warmer due to my 2 tanks (120 and 30 gallon). This family room is the only room downstairs except for a bathroom and our garage.

The temp on my 120 tank stayed around 77F all winter, but lately it's been getting up to 80-81 in the late afternoon. My lighting is 2 - 175 watt Iwasaki halides plus 2 actinic T-5's.

Since the family room is not too large, do you agree with the thinking that I could substitute an airconditioner (the sit-in-the-window kind) for a chiller? I have added a 6" fan mounted above the sump to cool the surface of the sump, and it has made only ~1 degree difference. Since the weather is getting warmer now I need to go ahead and buy my air conditioner, if that's what I'm going to do.

Related question: if I were to install a chiller instead of an air conditioner, would that prevent the ambient room temperature from getting as warm as it is now? It's much warmer than it has been other years, now that I have the tanks in there.

Thanks

Jan

The ambient room temp will actualy go up due to all the heat that the chiller is going to put out. On the other hand I would still go with the chiller for reef. If its fish only then I'd do the air conditioner.

Don

 

[NaH2O]

I don't think I'll ever get used to the fact that not everyone has central air...depending on where you live. I think I'd pass out from heat stroke without it.

I honostly don't know if your ambient room temperature would change with just a chiller. I'm thinking the chiller would make the room warmer. The problem with the chiller is they exhaust heat, so unless you have good airflow around the chiller, then you would be adding heat to the room. I have a fan mounted near my chiller to blow the hot air away from the unit. This has helped dissapate some of the exchanged heat the chiller gives off. Our house a/c is currently set at 76F, and my tank runs about 80F. I think if I was faced with a similar situation, I would first weigh out the cost differences between a chiller and room a/c unit. What are you keeping in your tanks?

 

[NaH2O]

Thanks, Don! I'm glad my brain is screwed on right this morning concerning the ambient room temperature.

 

[Jan]

My 120 tank is a mixed reef (and I'm investing in some nice SPS that I want to succeed with...); it has 7 fish. The 30 gallon is a species tank for anemone & clownfish. They are plumbed into a shared sump.

Hmmm. If I did a chiller I would need to vent it to the outside because that room could not stand any additional heat.

My budget is $400 or so on my cooling solution.

 

[DonW]

My 120 tank is a mixed reef (and I'm investing in some nice SPS that I want to succeed with...); it has 7 fish. The 30 gallon is a species tank for anemone & clownfish. They are plumbed into a shared sump.

Hmmm. If I did a chiller I would need to vent it to the outside because that room could not stand any additional heat.

My budget is $400 or so on my cooling solution.

The chiller provides stability to the reef irregardless of our comfort level. You can put a chiller outside. Or you can just blow a big fan at it to circulate the heat away. This will help alot.

Don

 

[Jan]

For my system:

120gallon reef + 30gallon species + 30gallon sump, all plumbed together, do you have any recommendations on type or brand of chiller I should use?

 

[preons]

you are going to need a chiller and an airconditioner unless you get the chiller vented outside. My chiller on my 75gal puts out lots of heat. I have to run lots of fans on our hot days. Those days that it gets 80+ in your house normally, will shoot to 85 -90 degrees in the room that has a chiller. no joke. And those days that get over 90 here you can forget about running your lights at all. Chillers dont work at all if you are blowing 90 degree air through them. Without some form of central cooling you are in trouble. It doesnt happen too often but it can get 100 here in the seattle area and if the room gets to 100 your tank is toast.

 

[Jan]

What do you think of the air-conditioner only option? If I got one that could keep the tank room at 70 degrees, then would I need to worry about the tanks going over 80 degrees? And is tank temp swing of 77 to 80 or 81 degrees safe for an SPS/mixed reef?

 

[scytale]

I love this board!
(My first "saltwater-summer") And I saw a slight increase in my tank's temp this week--started looking at chillers, but didn't even think about the heat that would be exhausted into the house from the chiller!

Now I plan on unpacking the A/C unit FIRST, then looking into purchasing a chiller (and not vice-versa..) That'll help me keep EVERYTHING .... Thanks Don and Nikki!

 

[jezzeaepi]

I use an air conditioner myself. If your budget is only 400, get the AC. A decent chiller will run you atleast 600 after tax and shipping(vs 300 for a ac). The only roblem with the AC option is that it increases the humidity in the room. I typically have to air the tank room out after a day or so of using the AC with the windows closed.
However, in setting up my next tank, I have already budgeted for the chiller for "just in case." I will be running the chiller and AC.

 

[preons]

I think if you can keep the room at 70 you will definately be able to avoid a temp crash. If you are currently able to control temperature at 70 then you should be fine right? I assume its when that room gets 75 that you start having problems. Thats when I do. My tank runs 5 degrees warmer than the room usually, and when it hits 76 in the room\80 in the tank, my chiller kicks in, and runs all day long increasing the room temp 5 degrees by the end of the day. If it hits 80 in the room I have to switch to panic mode. Turning off the lights to keep it below 85 tank temp. Last year when it was 90 for days the only way to keep my tank below 85 was to take the temp down to 74 at night when it was cool and run the chiller all day with 5 fans circulating air in the room. If it hits one hundred this year im going to have to have to splurge on AC. I was watching my brothers tank that week and after I got my tank under control I went over to his house. Windows shut and his AC off, 90 outside, it was 100 degrees in his house, his tank was 90 and his tank stopped circulating cause there was too much evaporation and not enough water in the sump. I had to put ice in the tank and run the AC to get it back down.

 

[davidabrown66]

What do you think of the air-conditioner only option? If I got one that could keep the tank room at 70 degrees, then would I need to worry about the tanks going over 80 degrees? And is tank temp swing of 77 to 80 or 81 degrees safe for an SPS/mixed reef?

Hey Jan, I would try and keep the temp swing to within 4 degrees I have to have a chiller these days and I keep the temp to within 2 degrees.

Also, depending on your sump space and subsequent evaporation rate, I would go with the AC unit and fans when needed. I did this when I lived in my previous split level house and it worked great. Why should the fish be the only ones that are comfortable for the same money spent?

I will add that we tried the portable AC units, but they are way underpowered for what they're rated at. Depending on the size of the room and design of your area, I would size the AC unit to cool the whole downstairs if applicable...say 900 sq ft vs. 300 sq ft for just the room as an example, b/c you won't be able to cool just one area very well if the cold air can migrate to any other part of that floor, and for the $$$ spent a 13,0000 BTU AC unit isn't that much more than a 10,000. Also, you'll want to look at adding a dedicated circuit breaker for this unit as well.

Just my cents cents,

Good luck!

 

[Jan]

I think if you can keep the room at 70 you will definately be able to avoid a temp crash. If you are currently able to control temperature at 70 then you should be fine right? I assume its when that room gets 75 that you start having problems. Thats when I do. My tank runs 5 degrees warmer than the room usually, and when it hits 76 in the room\80 in the tank, my chiller kicks in, and runs all day long increasing the room temp 5 degrees by the end of the day. If it hits 80 in the room I have to switch to panic mode. Turning off the lights to keep it below 85 tank temp. Last year when it was 90 for days the only way to keep my tank below 85 was to take the temp down to 74 at night when it was cool and run the chiller all day with 5 fans circulating air in the room. If it hits one hundred this year im going to have to have to splurge on AC. I was watching my brothers tank that week and after I got my tank under control I went over to his house. Windows shut and his AC off, 90 outside, it was 100 degrees in his house, his tank was 90 and his tank stopped circulating cause there was too much evaporation and not enough water in the sump. I had to put ice in the tank and run the AC to get it back down.

:shock: Wow...I need to get this figured out and in place. If I start panicking about temperature swings and the effects on the tank, my husband may divorce me!

 

[Meche]

The only roblem with the AC option is that it increases the humidity in the room.

This is not true. When you cool air, it looses its capacity to hold moisture. Water condenses on the heat exchanger (inside the AC) and drips out the back of the AC unit. That is why you have to install them with a slight tilt towart the outside.

Jezzeaepi,

What you may be noticing is that when you cool a room that already contains a lot of moisture, it may begin to condense on things other than inside the AC unit (like windows).

If you consistantly ran the AC, you should be able to keep that from happening.

Which leads me to my next point.

If you install an AC that will cool and dry the air, you will be able to remove more heat through evaporative cooling. Which, with a couple of fans and a lower ambient room temp, shoud provide tons of cooling.

 

[preons]

I totally agree with davidabrown and meche.

 

[DonW]

The air conditioner is uncontrollable when it comes to your tank. If the ac is not doing the and you see the tank temps rising by the time you lower the room temp the tank will already be toast. It takes a long time for ambient temp to effect overall water temp. I'd never trust my tanks temp to be controlled by a air conditioner.

Don

 

[Blazer88]

I am also in the same boat of deciding on a chiller vs. air conditioning. My condo (inside) hit over 90 degrees last summer. The tank didn't get above 85 but I was running three fans and didn't have my MH on for about a week. I'm trying to avoid something like that again and have been thinking about getting an air conditioner. I'm hoping I can keep the ambient temperature about 5 degrees cooler and I'll be good with fans from there on. Just don't wait, air conditioners were all sold out last summer

 

[Meche]

The air conditioner is uncontrollable when it comes to your tank. If the ac is not doing the and you see the tank temps rising by the time you lower the room temp the tank will already be toast. It takes a long time for ambient temp to effect overall water temp. I'd never trust my tanks temp to be controlled by a air conditioner.

Don

You are absolutely right Don. I should have added that the AC would pretty much have to be run constantly.

I think, however, with a limited budget, the goal here would be to prevent overheating from becoming a problem.

Where as if one buys a chiller, your goal becomes, temperature control.

The AC solution should not be connected to a temperature controller, but rather be used as a (winter) environment replicator.

 

[jezzeaepi]

"This is not true. When you cool air, it looses its capacity to hold moisture. Water condenses on the heat exchanger (inside the AC) and drips out the back of the AC unit. That is why you have to install them with a slight tilt towart the outside."

That is defintly true, but I have a fan blowing accross my tank at all times. With the windows closed, and the AC running, I would eventually reach a point where it was too muggy inside the room, and I would actually loose my ability to evaporate water to cool down the tank. This happened despite the fact that my AC was draining tons of water outside(and onto the downstairs neighbors balcony ).