Copepods

[Ichthys]

Does anyone near Federal Way have copepods for sale? If not, does anyone know the closest place to get them, I cant wait for an online purchase, need to get them asap. I picked up a Mandarin last week and it has been busy cleaning the copepods of my rock, I am concerned that there wont be enough so I want to supplememnt. Do people usually put all the pods in the fuge and let them find their way slowly to the DT or perhaps put half in fuge and half in DT for immediate Mandarin Munchies?
Thanks
Ichthys

 

[returnofsid]

You can probably purchase them from Barrier Reef.

Half and half would work fine. However, you may find that the Mandarin eats them about as fast as you supplement them. You might add a few bottles, to get yourself an "over population" started.

You can also build "pod piles" in your display. Pile up some small pieces of rubble rock, in a few piles. This will allow a place for the pods to reproduce, in safety, and as they "escape" the pile, the Mandarin can munch on them. The fish are unable to get into the pile.

I hope you don't have any other fish that will outcompete for the same food source, such as Wrasses.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

It is near impossible to supplemental feed enough pods to keep one alive. Either you have enough rock and plants to grow pods faster than they can be consumed or you don't. Many mandarins can be "trained" to eat frozen foods. I have one but there is little doubt that if put into a nano or tank with little rock, it would die. Sorry but this is my opinion as I have seen many dozens gradually starve to death. Very few tanks can support these picky eaters, but they are pretty and cheap as so easy to catch in the wild.

A Red Sea Aquarium in Shoreline sells pods.

 

[jill]

I've had a mandarin for 6 months in my nano. I switch out a good sized rock from the fuge of my 300 g system with one from my nano every week. The copepods seem to recover their population in the big tank fuge. I also have a small fuge in my nano with copepods which I feed with phytopure. I will also add a bottle of Tigger Pods every so often to the tanks and fuges.

In addition to all of this I feed a little Prawn roe and Cyclopeeze every so often but I am not sure if my mandarin is eating it.

As I said, I've only had him for 6 months but so far he looks great.

 

[TJL]

+1 on Mikes advice, I don't know how big or how established your system is but in general terms not many systems under 75-100g's ever work out in the long run to keep them alive. Like Mike I have unfortunately witnessed way to many Dragonettes starve to death in systems incapable of supporting the required quantity of pods necessary to sustain them. I have what I believe to be a minimal requirement system for a Mandarin which is a very mature 75g DT with a 40R well planted fuge containing a very healthy pod population. I bought a small, fairly thin Green Target Mandarin from BRA in January and she has become a nice fat & sassy Mandarin that has also slowly begun eating frozen mysis & brineshrimp if they pass her way.

To your success, Todd

 

[jrgilles]

I have some 1/4" plastic mesh (pond/garden stuff) that I make 'pod hotels' with.

I get some fishing line and sew up a pouch, then fill it with shells (bought a ton of shells online awhile ago.)

I hide these back behind the rocks in my DT, and it is a great place for pods to reproduce, and no fish can get into them, or disperse the shells.

I also have a fuge running. Going to put some mandrins in my tank, but I want to wait until my pod population gets better. Maybe a year or so.

Also going to get the ORA ones that eat frozen food, so between the pods and frozen food, I'm hoping to be able to keep a mated pair alive.

 

[jill]

I have to agree with Todd and Mike. The only reason I am able to keep mine in a nano is because my other big aquarium has a thriving pod factory and I am diligent about switching out rock and shaking chaeto from the big system regularly for fat juicy copepods. I wouldn't have a mandarin without in my nano otherwise.

 

[ac7av]

Come on now you are all assuming a grim outcome. Ichthys can you tell us about the size of your tank. I don’t know if you have every given us the stats on how big it is. Its looks like it could be a 120 gallon. I know I’ve seen it in several posts but can’t find that you ever said what size it is. Even though you may have seen the pod population decrees it’s because they are being hunted now. You may not see them just freely scurrying around the rock. Look in at night about an hour after you turn the lights off. That will give you a good idea of the population in the tank. Like returnofsid said if you pile up in a corner, small rocks or a bunch of shells work great too, the pods will have a good breeding space the fish can not get into.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

work great too, the pods will have a good breeding space the fish can not get into.

Yes vacant shell breeding homes are helpful, but if the pod population is reproducing at a rate below consumption, your fish will starve. Pod hiding places from the fish, won't change the outcome.

 

[jill]

I found Marc Levenson's article called "Mandarin Diner" helpful. It's on reefkeeping.com but I think you can find it if you just google "Mandarin Diner".

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I found Marc Levenson's article called "Mandarin Diner" helpful. It's on reefkeeping.com but I think you can find it if you just google "Mandarin Diner".

Thanks, Great article. Here is a link along with a niftier similar one:

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

http://microcosmaqx.typepad.com/matt_wittenrich/2008/12/miniature-mandarin-beer-mug-diner.html

 

[ac7av]

Yes vacant shell breeding homes are helpful, but if the pod population is reproducing at a rate below consumption, your fish will starve. Pod hiding places from the fish, won't change the outcome.

That goes with out saying but we don’t know that about this tank yet. We don’t have much information to formulate anything about the population in this tank yet.

 

[Ichthys]

Sonny is Kuckoo for Copepods

.....but we don’t know that about this tank yet. We don’t have much information to formulate anything about the population in this tank yet.

Well first let me say that I have a general disdain for people who go out and buy rabbits at Easter, or keep large dogs in small apartments without running them. I believe that if we are going to own an animal, we are responsible to provide good quality care and ensure its needs are adequately met. That philosophy extends to my tanks and therefore I will do whatever is necessary to ensure the Mandarin lives and is healthy. It was not my original intention to get a Mandarin, I was looking for a small hippo tang but when i came across a package deal on craigslist I took both fish. Now that he is in my tank, I will do everything possible to care for him, if he looks like he is beginning to thin, I will find a fellow reefer with a larger system that can care for him.

In response to sys specs, I have a 55g DT with 85 pounds of live rock, 40G Sump, and 10G fuge. Water flow, lighting, skimmer, are appropriate for the system. I test water a bit more than needed and have never had measurable nitrate, nitrite, or ammonia, my calc is at 440, PH 8.4, dKh 9.0, salinity 1.025 and temp stays around 78.5. There is a healthy ball of Cheato and some Caulerpa doing well in the fuge. Water changes are done weekly (10%) and ATo keeps salinity stable. Things that I DONT have yet are carbon, phosban, or Kalk reactors, controller, or test kit for phosphate. (Future purchases) I spend a lot of time monitoring my tank and its inhabitants and feel that I have a pretty well established system. Although it is not "established" by some standards(2 months) my rock came direct from a fellow reefers well established tank (Plack) and I feel the system is stable.

Thanks to those that posted links and info, I have read the articles as well as a few others on Mandarins and Copepod culturing. This is a good one on Copepods http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/breeder2.htm and here is one that might be a tad bit controversial, http://joshday.com/mandaringoby.htm but its worth a read.

So bottom line; I need to have enough copepods available for the mandarin to stay healthy. I have not been able to come up with an actual estimate of number of pods, I estimate that he can eat no more than 1400 copepods in a 24 hour period, but doubt that he really eats that many. I am creating Pod Piles both in my DT and a rubble pile in my Fuge. I am seeding with Ocean Pods, will probably order 3-6 bottles tomorrow. The bottle of Tigger Pods I bough last night I split 50/50 in the DT and the Fuge. On the plus side, the Mandarin was very plump and appears well fed, he moves around a lot, and is eating.
While I understand the logic of having 100G+ DT with 150-200 lbs LR for the pod population to thrive, I would like to believe that a smaller DT that has a well maintained and routinely re-seeded fuge can maintain the necessary dietary requirements. Worst case scenario would be buying a bottle of 1000 Ocean Pods every 3 days, that would only run $250 a month  jk…

While establishing the Pod population, I also plan on attempting to target feed roe, and may attempt training him over to something other than pods. I have read people have had success with brine, mysis, cyclopeeze, and pellet food.

I appreciate any advice or comments and will keep the thread updated with the little guys progress.

Thanks
Ichthys


PS: has anyone ever bought from this guy and was it a good product? http://cgi.ebay.com/LIVE-COPEPODS-FISH-FOOD-CORAL-FOOD-/260649448342?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

[76Frags]

An elevated refugium with an ample amount of chaeto or other macro algae works great too. With a standard sump/refugium the larger pods most likely won't make it through your impeller on their journey back to the tank. A gravity fed, or elevated fuge allows them a safe journey back through the overflows re-entering your tank.

I don't believe that you will have enough pods re-entering your tanks at any given time to feed the mandarin, but its amazing how quickly you can boost the population this way.
I don't think that most people take this route simply for the aesthetic reasons. I have run many elevated tanks over the years, and have had good success keeping several species of pods actively reproducing in the system.