Corals losing color ???

[cheeks69]

I'm having some problems with my corals losing their color, all my SPS frags and an Acro colony I bought are becoming very light in color, why ? They came from other tanks that used MH's and they've been in my tank for several months so it's not an acclimation problem, don't understand what it could be ? It's not a nutrition problem since I feed just about everyday I'm stumped

Most of my LPS which came from a previous tank also changed color, when I transfered them from my old 42 gal tank with 130W's of PC lighting to the new 93 gal with 1 MH 250w and 130w's of PC's 10 months ago, so that was to be expected but not the SPS. It's not like I have a tremendous amount of light in the tank some might even consider my lighting level on the low side.

So what do you think ???

My Parameters are:

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

Alkalinity 13.4dKH Slifert
Calcium 380 Kwik Kit

The cal/alk imbalance is only recent usually it's Alk 10-12dKH and Calcium 400-420

I drip Balls Pickling Lime daily and Turbo Calcium when necessary

In this first photo you can also see my RBTA and how it's color has changed to pink

This is supposed to be a green cap but it's turning light grey !

This Purple Rim Cap isn't so bad yet but it's color is changing...

This one is the most noticeable supposed to be a Red Cap :columbo:

Here's a Bali aquacultured Acro that was a gorgeous Purple but is also changing...

Last one

In this photo you can see my Torch which turned white but has slowly returned it's natural color. At the LFS it was under 150w DE MH.

 

[Scooterman]

Robert when was the last time you replaced your lamps?

 

[bradreef]

What kind of MH lights were they under before and how high? I always slowly adjust my SPS to my lighting even if I have more light then before. Place new coral at the bottom and then slowly raise it.

 

[Ohgee]

Not trying to sound like the pro here but I noticed a huge difference simply by moving most my corals from one tank to another.

90% of the corals in my tank came from Charlie and once introduced into my tank and acclimated to my tank the colors changed dramatically. The major difference is that he is running 20k lamps and I'm running 10k's.

Hope that explains what might be one of the reasons you might be having your problems.

Duane

 

[cheeks69]

I'm running a single Halide 10k XM 250w with 130w PC actinics. Most of the SPS were frags that were bought from someone using MH not sure on the K. I've had the bulbs for about 2 months they're about 12" above the water the tank is 30x30x24 93.5 gal with a 4" DSB.

 

[cheeks69]

The frags have been in my tank for about 6-7 months.

 

[NaH2O]

Robert - how long have the corals been in the tank? and/or how long has the color change been going on?

On the first 2 pics of the caps - are those bleached spots of white, or is it just the photo? Any major temp fluctuations?

Have you changed bulb brands recently?

*edit - OK, you beat me to how long the corals have been in the tank

 

[cheeks69]

Nikki temp is usually at 82 degrees but in the summertime can get to as high as 86 degrees. The color on the corals is WYSIWYG some parts of the coral especially on the Red Cap are white. I thought the problem was the CV bulb but it has gotten progressively worse in the last few weeks.

 

[Ohgee]

Temp seems to be a bit high to me, I try to keep mine right around 78deg. Maybe you can speak to this Nikki.

edit .... one more question ..... do you have glass under your MH?

 

[cheeks69]

No glass shield since it's a SE bulb so no UV problems like with the DE bulbs. AFA tank temp that's debatable most reefs in the Indo-Pacific range in the mid to high 80's so the only problem with those temps in a closed system would be dissolved oxygen levels IMO. I would keep it cooler but since I don't have a chiller I keep at this temp so that in the summertime the change isn't so drastic.

RHF:

In most instances, trying to match the natural environment in a reef aquarium is a worthy goal. Temperature may, however, be a parameter that requires accounting for the practical considerations of a small closed system. Looking to the ocean as a guide for setting temperatures in reef aquaria may present complications, because corals grow in such a wide range of temperatures. Nevertheless, Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.

Reef aquaria do, however, have limitations that may make their optimal temperature somewhat lower. During normal functioning of a reef aquarium, the oxygen level and the metabolic rate of the aquarium inhabitants are not often important issues. During a crisis such as a power failure, however, the dissolved oxygen can be rapidly used up. Lower temperatures not only allow a higher oxygen level before an emergency, but will also slow the consumption of that oxygen by slowing the metabolism of the aquarium's inhabitants. The production of ammonia as organisms begin to die may also be slower at lower temperatures. For reasons such as this, one may choose to strike a practical balance between temperatures that are too high (even if corals normally thrive in the ocean at those temperatures), and those that are too low. Although average reef temperatures in maximal diversity areas (i.e. coral triangle centered Indonesia,) these areas are also often subject to significant mixing. In fact, the cooler reefs, ( i..e. open Pacific reefs) are often more stable at lower temperatures due to oceanic exchange but are less tolerant to bleaching and other temperature related perturbations.

All things considered, those natural guidelines leave a fairly wide range of acceptable temperatures. I keep my aquarium at about 80-81° F year-round. I am actually more inclined to keep the aquarium cooler in the summer, when a power failure would most likely warm the aquarium, and higher in winter, when a power failure would most likely cool it.

All things considered, I recommend temperatures in the range of 76-83° F unless there is a very clear reason to keep it outside that range.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

 

[Ohgee]

Hadn't seen that read but thanks for posting it. Actually makes a lot of sense.

I guess your above my head as far as your problem goes. Sounds like you've done a bunch of reading on subject already!!!!

Maybe we can get someone like Charlie or Kevin to notice the thread and lend a hand. Two of the best SPS guys I know of anyway.

 

[bradreef]

Just food for thought. The Xm 10k bulb can have some of the highest par readings out there. The 250 watt can be stronger than many 400 watts.

 

[NaH2O]

Hmmm....I can't wait to hear what Kevin or Mike have to say. Here are some thoughts going through my head. I don't think temperature is an issue, as I don't feel it would be a slow bleach out (someone correct me on this). I think it is either a lighting thing, or a chemistry thing. What I can't decide is if what's going on is slow bleaching, or pigment changes. Have you added any phophate removers lately? I'll stew on this a little bit, and hopefully in the meantime we'll get some other brainstormers in here....or some hard core SPS keepers.

 

[cheeks69]

The 250 watt can be stronger than many 400 watts.

Yes I agree but my corals reacted so well to the new lighting that it didn't concern me much even some tiny frags that I thought were gone recovered so I was happy but I do believe I shortened the photoperiod for a couple of days.

What I can't decide is if what's going on is slow bleaching, or pigment changes.

Now that's the question Nikki !

Have you added any phophate removers lately?

Never used it.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello Robert,
IME some corals will RTN at 84F and some more at 86F. Most are just fine at those temperatures. None of them bleached. The problem with running at the higher temperatures lies in the fact that we are not collecting our corals ourselves so we don't know which if any came from that region. If we have a few that didn't then you can expect them to RTN at about 85F. On the other hand all of the corals will do well in a range of 76F-80F. Personally I don't like my tank to get above 82F (although sometimes it does) I shut the halides off at 84F.

The lightening of corals is almost always related to lighting intensity and photo period in combination. This is especially true if they get lighter over lets say a month or more time. Most of your plating corals are quite low light types and do best grown on the sandbed with your lighting and tank depth.

Corals can also turn white from lack of light but they almost always turn brown for quite a while first. A simple test would be to place one of your corals back into the tank it originally came from and see if it changes back to the original color or the color of the parent colony. Light or dark coral coloration is not an indicator of coral health. I have many frags of the same coral from the same parent colony located in several different tanks all with 400W halides. They range from almost white to dark purple/blue depending on the depth they are set and what brand bulb (I use all 10,000K bulbs). This is due to the inverse square law.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/forces/isq.html
As a result placement 3"-6" one way or another can have a large impact on the lighting intensity a coral receives.
Normally a coral lightens to reflect more light away and darkens to adsorb more light energy.

One other thing to check is phosphate levels although IME high levels (.03 and higher) will slow growth and turn corals brown not lighter.

HTH,
Kevin

 

[NaH2O]

Kevin - if it is a lighting issue, do you think a couple of sheets of screen material on the top of the tank would cause them to darken in coloration again? (don't know if that makes sense?) I'm just wondering if this would help Robert narrow down the source of the issue.

 

[kevinpo]

if it is a lighting issue, do you think a couple of sheets of screen material on the top of the tank would cause them to darken in coloration again?

It would Nikki. I think that cutting the halide photo period back to about 3-4 hours a day would be easier, save electricity, and be more convenient.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[cheeks69]

IME some corals will RTN at 84F and some more at 86F. Most are just fine at those temperatures. None of them bleached. The problem with running at the higher temperatures lies in the fact that we are not collecting our corals ourselves so we don't know which if any came from that region. If we have a few that didn't then you can expect them to RTN at about 85F. On the other hand all of the corals will do well in a range of 76F-80F. Personally I don't like my tank to get above 82F (although sometimes it does) I shut the halides off at 84F.

Nine months out of the year the temp in my tank is 82 degrees but during the summer months it'll get as high as 86. I've never had a problem with the higher temps with the LPS except the Torch and they come from cooler and deeper water so temp is something that's never really concerned me. Also have never had an RTN problem but that could be from the fact that my SPS are frags or aquacultured corals.

The lightening of corals is almost always related to lighting intensity and photo period in combination. This is especially true if they get lighter over lets say a month or more time. Most of your plating corals are quite low light types and do best grown on the sandbed with your lighting and tank depth.

This is what I thought so I placed the Bali Acro almost near the SB about 25" below the light but it's still happening. I could understand if I had a rediculous amount of light but 1 250w bulb and 130w of PC's are not alot of light I don't think.

One other thing to check is phosphate levels although IME high levels (.03 and higher) will slow growth and turn corals brown not lighter.

I have never checked phosphates but I don't think that's the problem since growth has been fine but will do that tomorrow.

 

[mojoreef]

wow Rob that looks terrible

Nevertheless, Ron Shimek has shown in a previous article that the greatest variety of corals are found in water whose average temperature is about 83-86° F.

Ahh another reason why Ron has never been able to keep a tank alive.

usually when a coral starts to go lighter in color it is a sign that the zoox population is taking a hit. So some kind of stree that is causing them to bail or be ejected, temp is usually the first thing to look at, the development of a heat stress enzyne will drive the zoox out. Running your reef in the summer at those temps is really riding the line, so I would be careful. However I dont think that is the problem here in this case. I would replace the bulb. You are showing signs of zoox pop decrease and pigments change, this would lead me to believe that the corals and anenome are getting bombed by some kind of color temp that it cant use. UV is the first thing that comes to mind. Maybe you have a bad bulb or its cracked or it has a defect in the glass shield on it. Regardless I would change it asap.


MIke

 

[cheeks69]

You are showing signs of zoox pop decrease and pigments change, this would lead me to believe that the corals and anenome are getting bombed by some kind of color temp that it cant use. UV is the first thing that comes to mind.

This is what I thought was happening with the CV bulb so I switched to the XM to try to correct the problem the RBTA changed to pink with the CV and the SPS seemed to improve initially with the XM but now it's getting worse.

What Bulb would you recommend ? Besides the Iwasaki I thought the XM was the best AFA PAR I really don't see anything else that could match it :?: