Electrical help needed

[Illusion]

I Am thinking about adding a couple more 20a circuits dedicated just for the tank Itself... My circuit breaker box is full however I was told that I could replace 2 of the 15a breakers with a single twin breaker as well as using the 2x new 20a breakers and using twin breakers...

I am sure the 2 additional 2a circuits is going to be enough... I was thinking about running the Wires and Installing the Recepticals myself and leaving the breakers to an Electrician... Is my Idea logical? Is it safe? I am in an Apt and already have approval to have/do the work needed for it... Its now a matter of actually doing it... I have priced out the breakers as well as the Wire and plugs and that part seems pretty reasonable to toss into an Apt... I plan on being here atleast another year so It would be worth it to me to be a bit safer... The main Feed coming off the meter is a 1/0 gauge wire...

There is 2x20a dual pole breakers for heaters
there is 1x dp 40a breaker for the range.
60a Dual pole Submain breaker
4x15a single pole breakers for lights
2x20a single pole breakers for the kitchen
and a dual pole 30a breaker for the water heater...

Is this going to be possible with the feed wire to add another couple 20a circuits to the panel or am I just stuck with my current situation? If it helps the run from the panel to where the new outlets would be installed is about 25ft


TIA,
James

 

[jsmkmavity]

the short answer is probanly ok. what amp is the main breaker, like 100, 150, or 200, where is the sub panel from the 60 amp 2-pole, and what breakers are in that panel. also the subpanel may be closer for wiring, check it out. the breakers you want are referred to as "stackers" and the brand of panel is necessary. some brands are prone to problems and i would not recommend adding anything to them. you can post this thread or pm me or call 208-255-8275 with more info or questions.

 

[DonW]

I'd say unless you get written approval from the property owner and get a lic/bonded electrician, along with all the permits. Your asking for a huge liability issue.

Don

 

[Illusion]

Written Approval is not an Issue... As for the Main panel there is no other panel in my residence... A lic/bonded Electrician is not an Issue either... I have not probs there... all the liability issues are taken care of... The only requirement on my part is that a Lic/bonded Electrician needs to do the main part of the work.. I can run the wire and sockets but It has to be up to code of course... The panel Brand is Bryant... Like I said there is no other main panel anywhere... If its at all possible in the current setup then I will probably end up buying the parts, A case of beer for my buddy to do the work and get started on it... I was thinking that the Wires would probably feed pretty easily down the wall from the panel and can be run along on of the floor beams to the wall where the tank is.. I believe thats how the current wiring is ran as well... Of course Its all going to be looked over before its wired up... Since I wont be living here forever It has to be done where there is no safety concerns for future residents as well..

James

 

[DonW]

Just dont forget the permits, without them your still liable.

Don

 

[jsmkmavity]

friends dont let friend wire houses drunk! seriously, you could chase down the parts and drill holes/run wires, and nail on outlet boxes but any wire connections should be the electricians job. and i agree that the permission should be in writing. if, God forbid, something happend that caused a major loss the landlord's tune might change a bit.

 

[Illusion]

Yeah I would get the permits and permision in writting... They have already gave me quite a few for the other modifications that I have done.. Such as locating the chiller outside (drilling thru wall) Bracing up the floor as well as having this large of a tank in my complex... As for the beer and the wiring Thats gonna be a Job well done "thank you" thing... I guess now its time to track him down and have him check it out as well...

Thanks again,
James

 

[KRMNAL1]

There is 2x20a dual pole breakers for heaters
there is 1x dp 40a breaker for the range.
60a Dual pole Submain breaker
4x15a single pole breakers for lights
2x20a single pole breakers for the kitchen
and a dual pole 30a breaker for the water heater...

James

What kind of service feed does your apartment have ?? I ask because a 4 bedroom 1900sq foot single family home usually has a 200amp service main with 1 or 2 extra slots. Running a sub panel in an apartment what kind of landlord do you have and is he/she sure that their fire insurance policy will protect them if there is a fire directly related to these modifications made by a tenant who is not an electrician and has not aquired the proper electrical permits from the city and or county ?? btw, installing the "breaker" is only a matter of 2 wires and pushing it in place explaining to the insurance adjuster after the place burns to the ground may be a little more involved

 

[Scooterman]

Running wires on the baseboard isn't up to code if I read that right, no code in the US would allow that unless your feeding the city inspector beer lol. You have to get the place inspected or permitted prior to doing any work on a commercial building he will need to see your plans & what you already have. Then the licensed electrician to complete the work then inspected again. After inspection your clear! Now with that said, I'm guessing you could do as you mentioned but with only 60 amps to work with your probably going to end up adding a larger sub panel.

Oh yea, typically you don't need a licensed electrician to add or get inspected as long as you wire to your local codes which you can get from your city or utility providers, after the inspector signs off on the Job your clear, your only liable from the outlet to the fish tank then & your renters or home owners insurance will cover that. On a commercial building it is a little different in the matter of getting the work done, your inspector will probably not want you to even touch any of the work, also the property owners don't normally allow that. In most cases you want a licensed electrician because he is trained to work with electricity, knows the codes locally, is equipped to do the job faster & safer.

 

[Illusion]

thats what I dont want to do is add another subpanel or anything... as for running the wires it would be under the Apt along the floor boards under the complex... I believe thats how most of the other wires are ran if I remember right in looking at the place... I was told as long as the job is done right and up to code then Its alright to have it done... I guess if I have to add another Subpanel then Im not going to have the work done.. Its a bit more than I want to add to the place I am renting... Adding a couple new sockets and breakers is no problem.. Adding a subpanel is too much...

James

 

[Scooterman]

You still have to get it inspected but that sounds better running wires under the floors. I wouldn't think another sub-panel but rather removing the 60a & adding a 100a sub-panel but that would need to be determined by your electrician, it might not be so bad. I would agree that if you plan on moving within a year I'd not waste the cash.

 

[Illusion]

Yeah I guess it all depends on the Cost... We need Electricians that will work for Frags LOL... That would be very helpful in this situation... Heck frags of tort, True soli.. I could go on and on LOL...

James

 

[snobanker]

James,

The project you are describing is actually relatively easy. To be quite frank almost all electrical work is actually "quite easy" for those that take the time to learn how to do it correctly. It's knowing the codes etc that get confusing. I am not sure where you live, but in Washington the Dept of Labor and Industries, allows homeowners to do their own work as long as it is done to code (NEC and local) and is permitted/inspected. That being said there are certain cities here that have their own permits and inspections. Any and all electrical work in Washington that involves adding new, modifying, replacing, or extending existing branch circuits, feeders or services requires inspection. The mere replacement of an outlet receptacle, light fixture, etc; does not...or at least didn't last time I checked . I am not sure that you as a tenant of the apartment qualify for the "homeowner" exemption, and your landlord may need to hire an electrician to do the work. I'd have to research that a little more to be positive.

If you are comfortable with doing the work, by all means do it yourself, your inspector will let you know if your work "sucks" . But if you are in any way worried about doing it, find a good "electrician friend" or hire one. If you "officially hire" an electrician they must be the one to get the permit and they must actually be a licensed "administrator" as well as a journeyman to hire themselves out. In other words legally you cannot just pay a lone "journeyman" to do the work. They risk their license doing this.

I was a fully licensed card carrying general journeyman electrician in Washington for 15 years before becoming a cop, so I have done my share of electrical work. That being said ...haha...I am probably one of the worst violators of the permit/inspection process in my own home because I make my own mods all the time, and don't feel like giving any money to the state .

I really don't give advice about exactly how to do electrical work or how things work etc on the boards. It's because I don't know your capabilities and you don't know if I'm full of it ...haha

By the way "Bryant" is a pretty good brand (depending on how old they were also called Murray)..they are part of Hubbell which is a very reputable electrical company. As long as your panel isn't "Sylvania or Zinsco" you should be ok. Those brands (same manufacturer) had a poor way of slipping onto the panel bus and were/are fire hazards. They are ok as long as you never touch them. oh another name for those double "stacker" breakers is peanut breakers, some brands had piggy back breakers in which the toggles were in line with each other instead of side by side...rare though. Peanut breakers or stackers are fine, they are just not as heavy duty as a full size breaker is all.

My point after all this diatribe is just be safe and do it right