fantail filefish..?

[l337dave]

-no flames please

does anyone have any experience keeping a filefish? (I believe it is is a fantail from research on the internet)

this fish I have is shaped the same as this one: http://www.thepetstop.com/adminpics/Fantail_20805.jpg

only its not an orange colour it's a drab/light green in a sort of camo pattern.

The colour seems to depend on how it feels or where in the tank it is - it likes to try to blend in!

mine it's eating and seems happy enough; hiding under rocks and picking away at stuff, it eats marine mix as soon as it touches the water, and has also eaten all the apistas (and zoo's... :| ) that I had in the tank.

Sometimes it will swim up and down with it's nose on the glass in one of the corners for a few mins before it swims away - does it want more space, can it see it's reflection, is it just not happy?

this fish is in a 30 about 4months old plenty of live rock (14Kg) with two false perc clowns and a few soft corals. it has been in there for 2 to 3 weeks now.

the tank will be upgraded to a 50 within about 2 weeks (already bought the tank just not picked it up yet)

any info would be great, i'm having real problems finding anything about them, there seems to be lots of conflicting info about how easy they are to keep. i really like the fish but if it isn't suitable for my tank I have no problem taking it back to the shop, they told me it was reef safe and would be fine in my size tank - so after all my zoo's went I know they were wrong on at least one of those so far...

thanks for you help,


dave.

 

[LakeEd]

Dave,

Sorry to hear about your Zoa's. I believe that is the reason most people don't add the Filefish to their Reef's... they do tend to munch on a lot of what we want to keep in our tanks.

Never owning one, I don't know much... but I do believe, due to their size, you want them in a 50+gallon tank, just to allow more movement for them.

Keep in mind, a lot of the "stores" don't know everything about everything they sell. They do know they want to sell it though! *grin* I have started asking questions, then asking them to hold it for me until the next morning, while I go home and do research on what it is I'm thinking of buying. True, I still make "impulse" buys... even with that reasearch, but I'm much more informed than I would of been only listening to the local store employee.

 

[steve-s]

Have a look on this page and see if you can get a better species ID.

Family: Monacanthidae (Filefishes)

If it's the one I think it is, you need to be feeding it some brown algae as well. If your LFS doesn't have it, see if the local oriental markets sell unseasoned wakame. It will also need a good variety of crustacean flesh/soft shelled animals. It will eat just about any invert (sessile/mobile) it can catch.

The tank size for this species in general is far too small most filefish but proper species identification will help.

What are your water quality/chemistry numbers?

Cheers
Steve

 

[l337dave]

hi,

it's def this one:

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?StartRow=3&ID=7849&what=species

I've been watching it carefully at feeding time today and I saw it have a go at 3 small nass snails that had come out, it's a lovely fish an looks so placid but with your comments it eating the zoos and going for the snails I guess it has to go back.

I bought it from the guy who helped me set my tank up, who in the past has always been great for advise, he had a big reef safe sign up on the tank they were in, and said that it would be fine in my tank and wouldn't eat a lot!

Maybe he was just having a bad day, but i'm going to be a lot more careful about just taking people's word on things!

I've been very good with everything else to do with the tank so I guess I can just say this was my impulse buy and must do better next time eh?

Any other information that I can pass on to the shop would be great tho, thanks for your help - at last i've got an id for it!




dave.

 

[steve-s]

I bought it from the guy who helped me set my tank up, who in the past has always been great for advise, he had a big reef safe sign up on the tank they were in, and said that it would be fine in my tank and wouldn't eat a lot!

It's actually more than possible the fish did little noticable damage while in this tank. You would have to give me allot more info about the tank setup/inhabitant before I could give you an educated answer. Just on face value though, there are two main reasons a fish eats things they are otherwise known not to. The foods they need to maintain their prefered diet are not added or they are not naturally occuring. Tangs are the best comparison for this one. If not recieving the appropriate food types/frequency, they won't hesitate to sample the coral buffet beneath them.

With the filefish I suspect it's a lack of varied foods but specifically worms and algae in this case. I don't know the ingredient of the Marine Mix you mentioned earlier but it does not seem to be fullfilling the needs of the fish. This species of filefish (if correctly ID'd) is actually not a big coral eater really.

Mine (and Ed's) original comment about tank size still holds though. This fish is better of in a minimum 55 gal but preferabley 75 gal tank. Lots of LR of plenty of macro fauna and filamented algae.

Did you get a chance to test the water parameters/chemistry numbers? This can often tell something that may not be related to what's been discussed.

What other fish are in the tank?

Cheers
Steve

 

[l337dave]

am and nitrite aren't detectable, nitrate was at <10 when I tested, I changed some water this afternoon to bring it down, I'll test again in the morning and can test for anything else that you think might be relevant, I'm picking my new tank up tommorow all being well so if you guys think it's suitable it will be going into a 45ish UK gallon tank - I understand that a Uk gallon is more than a US one? will this tank be a good home for it?

you mentioned above that it's diet needs to include worms and algea, could you be specific about what would be the best for me to buy for it? (noted above that you mentioned wakame and I'll go into the chinese area of town and see if I can find some, does it go by any other names?)

thanks for all your help so far it's appreciated.


dave.

[edit] - the filefish is in a 30 with about 14kg of live rock 2 false clowns a leather coral and some GSP's there are also 10ish small nass snails, 1 large turbo type snail, 2 medium hermits - one scarlet, one blue legged, 10ish micro hermits and a peppermint shrimp.

 

[steve-s]

I'll test again in the morning and can test for anything else that you think might be relevant

Alkalinity, pH, salinity and temp please.

I'm picking my new tank up tommorow all being well so if you guys think it's suitable it will be going into a 45ish UK gallon tank - I understand that a Uk gallon is more than a US one? will this tank be a good home for it?

Depends on the tank dimensions. Simple volume is not necessarily an improvement. This tank would be approximately 54 gal based on conversion from a UK gal (4.5 lt) to a US gal (3.78 lt). So it could be a good improvement but as I said, that would be the minimum I would suggest.

you mentioned above that it's diet needs to include worms and algea, could you be specific about what would be the best for me to buy for it? (noted above that you mentioned wakame and I'll go into the chinese area of town and see if I can find some, does it go by any other names?)

Wakame is just a brown type of dried algae used in Japanese dishes. If you can find it alternately by all means do so. Just be sure whatever you get is unseasoned. Might also try the local health food store. The LFS will have something similar, these other suggestions will just be allot cheaper. Also try green and red algaes. No caulerpa though!

If it continues to peck at the snails, I have a suggestion if you have a strong enough stomach? It involves walnut crackers though... :shock:

Cheers
Steve

 

[l337dave]

just an update to this, I've moved a lot of the rock around to give more caves and arches it seems to like to spend lots of it's time underneath cover or overhangs - so that could have been one of the reasons I guess. I've also found out that it has a really really great appitite for aptasia I got hold of some rock that had a major infestation and put it in the tank, it has eaten it's way through all but the largest one (which it is having a go at) in about a week. I'm wondering if I can find a way to farm them (maybe in the sump I'm setting up) would this be a natural way to meet dietary requirements or would I still need other foods in addition to the the aptasia and the frozen foods.

I put some more zoos in as well just to see and the colony was eaten up within a day - so I don't think I'll be able to keep zoos at all!

thanks for the help so far!


dave.

 

[steve-s]

Aiptasia are very easy to keep/raise. Just get a small tank you can connect (easier for many reasons) to the display tank. Use a good amount of cheap base rock and add some infested rock from your main. Allow the anemone to grow wild in there and just trade out rock back and forth from the main to the second tank. As long as you light the second tank and feed the little guys, they'll grow like wild. They'll spread that much faster if you "tissue lacerate" them rather than natural division though. If you have to buy new stock from the LFS, be sure the new stuff is QT'd for 6 weeks before using in the display/secondary tank.

Keep in mind though you will have challenges trying to keep anything else in this tank other than the filefish so be sure of what your doing before you commit. Be sure it's diet does not soley depend on this food source alone. Veggies and crustacea are also required.