First sump design

[Thrawn]

So after numerous hours reading and learning about sumps, I put together a draft of my sump's design. I thought I would post it on here so you guys could rip it apart. I got most of my ideas from Melevsreef.com. Specifically this design: Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums
Should come out to be approximately a 44 gallon sump with the water level at 35 gallons. My DT is 90 gallons

So here it goes!
Top view

Side view

Hopefully you can make sense of my chicken scratch. Even I usually can't. The skimmer I used for dimensions is the reef octopus 110, which is rated for 100 gallons but I'm wondering if I should bump up to the 150 because my DT plus the sump will come out to approx 125 gallons.
Feel free to chime in with any and all information! I do have a couple specific questions. 1st, should I have a square bubble trap chamber where the water first enters the sump? Also, I wasn't sure how big to make the return area as opposed to the refugium. Every thing said you want a big return area because that's where water evaporation is going to show but then the bigger the fuge the better. So which should be bigger?
And last one, I sketched the skimmer in the long ways, but I'm wondering if I should rotate it so that the longer section is going the width of the sump. Would allow for a bigger return/refugium.
Sorry for so many questions.
Thanks in advance for all advice, criticism is welcome =)

 

[Krish]

First thing I noticed was how it the water getting to the fuge if your return chamber is before it? I see you have the input chamber-->return chamber--->fuge. If there is only one input side of the sump which going by the picture seems to only be the first chamber where the skimmer is, then you will have to make an adjustment switching the return chamber and the refugium around. Let us know though if you only have one input and I'm reading it correctly.


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[jrgilles]

Hey krish, looks like he is splitting the drain line from the tank so he can control the flow rate through the fuge.

This is very similar to my sump, minus the fuge. Here is a pic of mine.

I ended up taking the fuge out because once I measured it out (including the baffle thickness) there really wasn't that much room for the fuge. I moved it out to the side in a separate tank. Something to think about if you want more room for the fuge. I spliced off the main drain line and had a small flow go through the fuge, then overflow back into the sump.

I did put in a bubble tower, as well as a 'guard' right near the baffle at the base of the bubble tower to make it so no air bubbles could get sucked directly through the baffle. Here are some pics.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/104216026959215989048/albums/5423067602853924273

Besides that, it looks like a pretty good setup. Have you thought about how you are doing the drain? I recommend a herbie, as it runs very silent (some people also do something they call the bean animal method.) Herbie needs 2 drains from the DT though, bean needs 3. I would recommend having 2 drains on anything you drain though. Redundancy saves you from flooding the floor if something gets caught and blocks the drain.

rob

 

[trido]

Are you going to have some sort of Auto top off system or do it manually? If you have a system, I'd recommend making the return pump chamber smaller and the fuge bigger.

 

[jrgilles]

I have a TLF kalk reactor inline from my top-off, so in my case a larger return chamber is better (as they like to go about 20 seconds before shutting down, so the check valve stays clear.)

What is the advantage of a smaller return? Just to keep the salinity a bit tighter?

 

[Krish]

Ahh...That's what I was wondering. Looked like a single drain and not a split drain. Cool beans.


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[Thrawn]

Hey krish, looks like he is splitting the drain line from the tank so he can control the flow rate through the fuge.

I ended up taking the fuge out because once I measured it out (including the baffle thickness) there really wasn't that much room for the fuge.

Besides that, it looks like a pretty good setup. Have you thought about how you are doing the drain? I recommend a herbie, as it runs very silent (some people also do something they call the bean animal method.) Herbie needs 2 drains from the DT though, bean needs 3. I would recommend having 2 drains on anything you drain though. Redundancy saves you from flooding the floor if something gets caught and blocks the drain.

rob

Planning on splitting the drain line, 75% through the skimmer, 25% through the fuge? What would be an acceptable size for the fuge? At those dimensions, compensating for guestimated baffle thickness, it'll be about 9 gallons. That definitely sounds smaller than I thought it would be. How big should it be?
Haven't looked into draining yet But I was kinda planning on drilling the tank since that seems to be what most people recommend. It just makes me nervous as hell.

Are you going to have some sort of Auto top off system or do it manually? If you have a system, I'd recommend making the return pump chamber smaller and the fuge bigger.

I'm going to build an auto top off as well.

 

[trido]

I have a TLF kalk reactor inline from my top-off, so in my case a larger return chamber is better (as they like to go about 20 seconds before shutting down, so the check valve stays clear.)

What is the advantage of a smaller return? Just to keep the salinity a bit tighter?

IMO a bigger fuge is better. On a small sump sometimes a fuge can simply be a waste of time and space. With a float switch, IMO the return pump chamber size isnt as critical as it would be if a person were filling it manually once a day. A small return chamber will cause the ATO to kick on more often but it really isnt a big deal. Also with an ATO/ Kalk top off in a small chamber the tank gets smaller doses of kalk more often reducing Ph swings as opposed to the occasional big dose from a larger return chamber. Its all just a matter of preference.

As long as a sump cleans the water, heats the water and gets it back to the display without microbubbles. Its doing its job. All the details are just preference and a place to put the bells and whistles without cluttering the display tank.

FWIW, I just built my sump today with a 29G (just a 20 long with extra height) I have a 3.5" bubble trap on one end, a fuge in the middle, and a 5.5" return chamber from the closest baffle. its 7.5" to the fuge baffle. Its a 20" long fuge that will hold a DSB and feather calurpa.

 

[Thrawn]

Well, if I rotated the skimmer to shrink that section, and then shrunk down the return, I could get the fuge up to at least 20 gallons. Would that be enough?
Also, where is the best place to put a heater?

 

[jrgilles]

I have my heater in the return chamber, but I have a large return chamber. 20 gallons should be a good fuge size. As a rough guidline, the fuge should be around 20% of the DT tank volume to take good advantage of the benefits

 

[Thrawn]

I have my heater in the return chamber, but I have a large return chamber. 20 gallons should be a good fuge size. As a rough guidline, the fuge should be around 20% of the DT tank volume to take good advantage of the benefits

Thanks! That's a good rule of thumb, I hadn't heard that before.

 

[jrgilles]

Hah, because I just made it up.

Really though, it is probably a decent place to base the size off of. I read it somewhere, maybe reef central, when I was trying to figure out how big (or small) to make my fuge. 20% should be enough to get some good macro growing for export, and also to supply enough pods to the system for whatever

 

[Thrawn]

Alright, so I've done a lot of reading today on different drain methods. I think I'm going to go with herbie, because I want it to be as quiet as possible. However, I haven't been able to find a good step by step DIY link to one. So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly.
You have two drains, with one of the pipes shorter than the other one. The shorter one will be your main drain. It's just a simple pipe down into the sump with a ball valve halfway down. The taller one is a back up without a ball valve that is placed above the water level? This one is only used if the main one clogs. You then tweak the ball valve in the first one so that it doesn't drain so fast that the water level drops too far and you get the gargling sound as it enters the pipe.
Is this a pretty accurate description?
Now, since I was planning on splitting the flow from the tank into the skimmer and fuge separately will I have to do 2 complete herbies on each side of the tank or just one put a T-valve to split the flow to them?

 

[jrgilles]

I did this wih overflow boxes. But yea, that is pretty much it. I used a ball valve, but really wish I had used a gate valve for more precise control. Also make sure there are some unions around so you can get to the valve incase a shell or something gets clogged in there.

As for splitting, just put in a tee or whatever. Only need one main drain. On mine, it splites with a tee that goes to a ball valve that controls fuge flow, then down below that thwre is a ball valve that controls the the flow to sump. I can balance these to make the drain run at a syphon

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[Thrawn]

Are there any safety measures that I'd have to take to prevent a flood?

 

[jrgilles]

The backup drain should do it. Add in a bunch of unions so you can take apart the drain if the need arrises.

on the return from sump, drill a eighth to quarter inch hole maybe a half inch below the water line. I have two holes drilled, a second about an inch below the water line. That will act as a syphon break if the power goes out. You should also make sure there is enough room in the sump to handle whatever volume flows back down.


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[eww]

Are there any safety measures that I'd have to take to prevent a flood?

That is what the second drain is for.

Like Rob said I would suggest a gate valve instead of a ball valve. They are way easier to fine tune for the drain flow.

 

[Thrawn]

Finally found the time, or made the time, to re-do the sump plan. So here it goes, hopefully it makes sense. It's too late to tell if I'm being coherent.

 

[07FocusST]

Just in my opinion... Make the Fuge 20" and take that extra inch of space to make the bubble plate spacing 1" on each side. A 1/2" spacing in the bubble plate can cause the skimmer (inlet area) to back up if the correct spacing is not provided between the bubble trap baffles.... This was a personal experience I had.

 

[jrgilles]

Looks good, but yea, you might want to space the baffles out a bit more. A tough balance though, as you don't want the baffles to eat too much space.