Fish and corals do not mix

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Paul B

Paul B

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Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
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Location
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OK I have an opinion now. Fish and corals should not be put in the same tank. OK so we all want fish and corals and we all have them in our tanks but the corals would do much better without the fish, especially when the fish grow to the extent that they eat massive quantities of food and start to really mess up the water. We all talk about nitrates and phosphates but we add these chemicals every time we feed our fish. We really should only keep very small fish like clown gobies and mandarins in our reefs if we want an easy to care for reef. Of course I (and most of you) do not do that and we have large active fish from all oceans swimming around the corals we are trying to grow. I have a moorish Idol that grew way too large for my 100 gallon reef. To tell the truth, I diden't think he would live this long and he eats much more than all my other ten or so fish put together. This is a problem for the water quality and the tank (and the corals) suffer. Whenever I had a large fish die I always said I want to keep the tank with small reef fish but I never listen to myself and always buy a tang, Idol or some other fish that will inevidently outgrow my tank.
So this thread is really about, well nothing really but I just wanted to say that
Have a great day.

Paul

Yes thats a baby octopus, when my animals get too large, I eat them :badgrin:
 
I dont know what to say about that!!
I cant see you being serious about eating your fish when they get too big. That is not right..

well have a good one...

Matt
 
Well there's really not much meat on a clown goby, not that I would ever eat one. Octopus is another story. That picture was taken in Sicily two weeks ago and those small octopus must be real common. They gave me 6 of them for an appetizer. I really diden't want octopus but unfortunately I don't speak much Italian and the waiter dident know any English so I got a plate of octopus.
 
just my two cents, no offense please?

Hello Paul,
I like having lots of fish in a reef tank.:) Here is my thoughts, and nothing mean to be offensive to you or others.
Large fish and small fish fan corals, Sometimes a fish will eat part of the coral while going after fish food and then become a coral eater on accident,yes(most notorius for this is the Hipo Tang). But I feel a fish that is fed often but not overfed is great.
A Community of fish that do not allow food to hit ground when fed feed corals. Hence for example a Tang eating Nori produces Iodine in his waste. A tang that maintains macro algae that could rob other corals of nutrients, light. Corals also eat fish poop. That may be the secret to growing that colorful coral, lol. So I am pro Fish/reef Mix.
I think Moorish Idols are so picky of food and fast eaters also like Hipo Tang.
I would think people complaining about Moorish Idols about them hitting corals or eating corals have had accidents where Moorish Idol went for food and ate coral in the process. Again, when fish gets a taste of food and coral at same time. Fish that eat coral and fish food at same time think boy, that was good. I am gonna do that again. So I blame the way people feed and the way ReeF Tank Rock/Corals are constructed. I see more people drilling PVC/acrylic dowel into rock because they want a Reef Tank/Reef Fish Mix.
Again, no harm intended, just a oppinion of mine. :)
Sincerely,
Ed:)
 
Last edited:
Ed, OK I think. I did not mean that fish will harm corals, I meant that fish, especially large fish eat a lot and produce a lot of waste thereby reducing the quality of the water. I also like a lot of fish with my corals but the large fish like the moorish Idol is preventing me from keeping my water as pure as I would like. And also I would never take offense at anyone's post or answer to a post.
Have a great day.
Paul
 
Paul I do agree to an extent. I can definatly see a reef (specificly SPS) being much easier to keep healthy and promote growth with only small fish's and also in smaller groups.
but it is not realistic for anyone to have a reef and no fish. the only place that you may find this would be in frag/grow out tanks...:D

Matt
 
Matt, I agree with you 100%. As I said I have many fish in my reef, it just would be easier to keep the water in better shape with smaller fish. And Matt, I don't really eat my fish. I did eat a nice sea bass last night though.
Paul
 
After a little thought, I tend to agree with Paul here. Buy I also think that the size of the system would have something to do with this, that and the size of the skimmer involved. This is a really interesting topic, because I am in the planning stages for a 180. One question, do you think a flame angel and an orange shoulder tang, by themselves, would be OK in the 180? The tang could get large, but it would be the only large fish.
 
Two large fish in a 180 will do fine. Tangs do not get that large. My moorish Idol is about as large as a tang gets and I think it is much fatter. Of course it depends on what else you are putting in there.
As for a large skimmer mine is homebuilt and almost 5' high. It is very efficient and is also used with ozone. Unfortunately skimmers, no matter how efficient do not remove everything. To do so would also be detrimental to the corals. I also have a tray the length of the 6' tank that is for growing algae so I guess I could call it a skinny refugium and I have had to use carbon 24/7 for a few months just because of the Idol. If I eliminate the carbon I will get slime algae which I have some now. It is a direct occurance of too much food which can't be helped with certain fish.
Paul
Paul
 
Paul B said:
Two large fish in a 180 will do fine. Tangs do not get that large. My moorish Idol is about as large as a tang gets and I think it is much fatter. Of course it depends on what else you are putting in there.
As for a large skimmer mine is homebuilt and almost 5' high. It is very efficient and is also used with ozone. Unfortunately skimmers, no matter how efficient do not remove everything. To do so would also be detrimental to the corals. I also have a tray the length of the 6' tank that is for growing algae so I guess I could call it a skinny refugium and I have had to use carbon 24/7 for a few months just because of the Idol. If I eliminate the carbon I will get slime algae which I have some now. It is a direct occurance of too much food which can't be helped with certain fish.
Paul
Paul
Click to expand...


Good point about the skimmer!!!! I know about your algae tray, how often do you harvest out of it?
What are your plans as far as the Idol, you aren't going to get rid of it, are you? Do you think that setting up another "refugium" might be a choice. By slime algae, do you mean cyano? I have to assume that you siphon that out with your water changes. It is a great way to export nutrients, but you seem to have the cause narrowed down.
 
Charlie, the slime algae in my tank at this time is not cyano. It is just in some places where some of it is in thin pieces almost reaching the water surface. I can suck it out with a baster in a minute or two. It is just one of those things that come and go in cycles and it will only last a couple of days. As a matter of fact it is all gone today. One of the air pumps on my skimmer croaked and I diden't notice it for a few days which probably caused it. I repaired it yesterday and all is well again. My algae trough is only emptied when it fills with algae which also comes in cycles. Sometimes it grows an inch a day and they months will go by with nothing. I usually only have to clean it every 5 months or so.
I have this codium seaweed growing in a few places which I collect locally in NY, the slime only grows on that. I don't know if the codium produces something that grows it or if the stuff is just drawn to the codium for some reason. Either way I can remove the codium occasionally and rinse it and all the slime comes off. It may be an efficient way to remove nutrients. I think I am going to see if I can find the room to build a refugium just for codium as an experiment. I can't grow it in my trough which has a water depth of about an inch.
Have a great day.
Paul
 
All I can say is, nutrient export is nutrient export!!!!! Your skimmer was probably the cause of the slime, IMO.
I don't think I have ever seen codium before, unless I missed it one of your earlier pics. It will be interesting to see your take on the refugium idea Paul, please post some pics when you get going. Keep us updated, OK?
 
I remember a lecture this year in Seattle where I was told one algae combats another. The educator recommended using as many different types of algae as possible in your sump. I am curious if this would help you.
 
Ed Hahn said:
I remember a lecture this year in Seattle where I was told one algae combats another. The educator recommended using as many different types of algae as possible in your sump. I am curious if this would help you.
Click to expand...


Ed, set me straight on this, if one algae combats another, why would he suggest using as many different types as is possible???????:confused:
 
Charlie, I am designing the sump for my reef to be used with codium but it is a challenge. My tank is in an island in the room not connected to any walls, It is in a finished basement with a concrete floor. The ceiling is a drop ceiling
so the pipe has to go into the ceiling and about 25' away to another room where the refugium will be. Then it has to come out of the ceiling and down to the refugium. The return water also has to be pumped back to the tank.
Since I need two pumps, one feeding the refugium and another one returning the water they have to work in tandem with a fail safe way to control them so I don't empty or overfill something. I will use both a homemade float switch and a homemade mercury switch on both my reef and the refugium.
I have an unlimited supply of it. All of the codium plants are about 10" high and they all come with a holdfast.
Paul
I can't find my pictures of codium. Maybe if you type it in under "search"
 
Charlie not it is not broad leafed. it looks more like a smooth green gorgonian. You can see a small piece in the back of the full front view of my tank in my photo gallery. I think it is the third picture. That is a very small plant, it comes about 10" high and wide.
Paul
 
First off I don't know what kind of fish you have but 11 fish in a 100g tank is way too many for me to keep up with, don't like the added cleaning, I don't care if they were all small, they all poop! People put way too large fish in their tanks I agree, if most would stick to smaller fish that stay small at adulthood, they would have less problems but people are hard headed in that way & just have to keep many fish in their reef. Then you see them pop up threads wanting help with their algae problems LOL!
 
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