Fish Disease ID

[LakeEd]

Lee,

I have looked through all of your "Stickies" here, and I haven't found a good one that would help us in identifying some of the various ailments our fish might get. Something with pictures, perhaps on a couple different fish types... so when someone like Jnance here [Uh-Oh] (or, myself... honestly) suspects a problem, we could have something visual to help guide us in our immediate responses (besides ensuring that fish is in a QT, ready for treatment you may recommend). I don't suppose that might be a possible "Sticky" in the future???

 

[leebca]

You're right Ed that such a sticky does not exist here in Reef Frontiers. But there are some problems with that (to the way I think). Let me explain.

I like the forum means of communication. I do not post any marine fish information to any other medium. And I only post marine fish information to places I can modify the post as new information comes to light. As long as I'm around, this keeps the post as relevant and accurate as it can be.

I lean towards being a perfectionist, if the above paragraph leaves you wondering!

I have found photos of marine fishes with diseases and conditions. Some, better than others. Most of the good photos are copyrighted. Since I do not have my own photo library of marine fishes with diseases, the photos you speak about would be 'lifted' from someplace else. I respect others' rights to their efforts. (I don't bootleg or own bootleg DVDs, CDs, software, etc.).

When I go to sites that have photos I immediately look at the photos of marine fishes with Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans). I am 'intimate' with this parasite, and there is a very large collection of information that has been gathered on this pathogen over the last 100 years. Besides the photo(s) which are usually good, there is a discussion of the parasite and perhaps recommendations on treatment. I have yet to find any site that has gotten the information correct. So assuming I would refer someone to the site, they may read incorrect information. Not in our hobby's best interest.

Take the other approach, where the person just looks at the photo they were sent to see (without reading the text). A disease such as brooklynellosis presents itself in about 20+ different ways. No site has ever captured every presentation. A person goes to the site and sees the photo(s) of fish with brooklynellosis and since the photo doesn't match what they see in their fish, they assume the fish doesn't have this disease. Oops!

Now think about this example: The number of photos of marine fishes with Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) are hard and few between. Why? Because when the fish is at the stage where those very fine spots show up or the fish has that sheen to it (like the cloth velvet) the fish is almost dead. If a hobbyist looks at the photo and compares that to their fish, they would think their fish, flashing, breathing fast and not eating, does not have Marine Velvet because there are no such spots on the fish. This problem is in the category that the photo shown is at a certain stage of the disease and doesn't represent what one often sees at the onset. Oops!

So I'm left with: such photos can be misleading; photos are insufficient; text is wrong; treatment is not current; and photos can be incomplete. Lastly (and most importantly ) you're trying to cut back on my posting, aren't you? :evil: [joke]

I can't seem to get over this particular set of problems, as I see it. When someone posts they aren't sure of what the fish problem might be, I would like to see a photo of their fish and learn all about the water quality, marine system, diet, fish symptoms, and fish history.

I could post a sticky on how to report a marine fish problem (things to look for), although many symptoms of diseases and conditions are outlined in: Should I buy that fish?.

I'd welcome any idea or suggestions, so long as it will resolve the above dilemmas.

 

[LakeEd]

Lee,

Thank you for your very well written explanation above!!!

1st, let me get one thing perfectly clear... I READ ALL YOUR POSTS! On those days you are taking a small sabbatical from us here in Reef Frontiers, my online time is drastically cut down. You don't think I want to get away from my computer any sooner than I do now, and actually have to do "Honeydew" work, do yas? [joking back with ya!]

Now, to the subject matter once again;

I can understand, and appreciate your thoughts and ideas about posting pictures. I know that I don't have even 1 picture of any fish with a diseases. I also understand (as may be noted in my original post, mentioning showing pictures of same problem on many fish) that each disease shows itself in numerous ways.

What I had not taken into consideration that your post pointed out to me... was that many people might look through any given pictures... and think "That doesn't match what I'm seeing, so that can't be it"... and that wouldn't be the best for their fish, or our Forum either.

Perhaps a Sticky, that helps people understand what type information, including pictures, water parameters, feeding, other occupants, recent additions/changes... they should attempt to include in their 1st post of "Help, my fish has something... and I don't know what to do for them" that would give you more information to get them pointed in the correct direction as soon as possible. It seems that every post of people worried for their fish, tends to go back and forth for close to a day with that basic information... and I know a lot can happen to our fish in that day.

Hopefully this has sparked ideas in others out here, and together something along these lines might be put together by all of us, which only helps strengthen this Forum here!

Thanks again for your time and knowledge Lee... its muchly appreciated!

 

[leebca]

Thanks Ed for your kind sentiments.

I can put together a sticky of 'How to Post a Fish Problem' fairly easily. What happens is that the poster doesn't read it. If they do read it, they usually don't follow it. In some cases, it may slow down getting help to the fish. Read on.

You are correct in that correspondence goes back and forth a day or more while more information is gathered, sometimes. But specific information or all the information isn't needed. It's a subtle thing. Let's see if I am good at explaining this one.

A person describes (I would have to look for this particular case in Reef Frontiers, but it came up a few months ago, I believe) what their fish looks like, but provides no photo and little or no water test results (or more than normally, swears the water quality is perfect).

The poster gets conscientious replies to provide more information from several very good regulars here on RF. But, I recognize the description as likely being one of two, or both things: water quality; bacterial.

If I am provided all water tests, I still may not find the fault with the water. As I've written before, not all water problems can be tested for with the common test kits. I've written a sticky on that subject of water quality, beyond test kits.

If it is bacterial, it could result from poor water quality or the inability of the fish to fend off 'normal' aquarium bacteria. This is usually the result of stressors on the fish starting with nutritional deficiencies and continuing through to a host of many other stress sources.

Now, I can respond like the other posters, 'Provide more information,' or I can address those two possibles and get the fish fast help. I'd tell the poster to check the water, then perform a large water change daily for the next few days, refer the poster to the water quality AND fish health/nutrition sticky, and offer to help them if they will list all the information missing (now this is where I could use the sticky post to guide the info needed). What I've found is that 50/50 provide more information and the other half is neither heard from again or mentions later the fish has died or the water change helped.

In the above example, I was able to help the fish as quickly as I could, with the information provided. Not the best or always the optimum approach, but something that can be done now and then.

What I'm getting at is that even the sticky that explains what information to provide isn't always necessary, complete or able to expose the problem. It does make it easier and improves on, the diagnosis.

I'll give it a try tomorrow and see what you think. Look for a new sticky.

 

[LakeEd]

Don't ya just hate it, when someone posts what starts out like a simple question... then evolves into work for your fingers! :evil:

Once again you point out what I have seen again and again in posts here, but haven't conscientiously put two & two together for myself for the answer. Thank you yet again for the time to help me with my poor addition skills!