Fish painkillers?

[Caesar777]

Okay.... Is there any sort of topical or dip-solution type of painkiller for fish? Long story short, my new baby hepatus tang was attacked by my little emerald crab. Caught the fight in time, within a minute of the little fella getting caught, but he's hurt--not mortally, necessarily, as no major organs were hurt, just skin and a bit of muscle. Basically, it's like this:

I brought home a baby blue tang today. Dime-sized. He swam around the tank for a sec after acclimation, then hid in a zoo rock (branchy, so among the branches, not the zoos). The emerald crab was sitting in there--also small, dime-sized--and I watched it for a sec but it did nothing but sit there nibbling its mouthparts as it does all day, so I paid no mind. Went off to get some mice out of the freezer for my snakes, came back to find the crab clutching the tang, eating him! Long story short, got the tang away from the crab, put the tang in my in-tank fuge (low-flow and safe), killed the crab.

Now, I had also grabbed some cyclopeeze and offered a tiny bit to the tang. He ate it, despite his caudal fin being nibbled down to the muscle (little fin left, and some is spiked upward, bent or twisted), as well as some bites on his lower back. The stress is obviously enormous, and that alone might kill him. But he did eat.

Point is: obviously good water quality (I have no nitrate, phosphate under 0.2, nice calc/alk, good circulation, good skimmer--AquaC Remora Pro), good food quality (Cyclopeeze, seaweed sheets, etc.), and feeding often are the tlc he needs. Hopefully he can make it past the initial stress--he looks alright but obviously still stressed, breathing fairly quickly but not extremely. But is there any way I can dip him in some solution that would act as a painkiller, or something that could help him initially with these grotesque wounds? His wounds look very painful, poor thing.

 

[leebca]

Interesting question. In order to ask for a painkiller the assumption is that fish feel pain. This has been quite the debate amongst scientists. Recent tests are coming out showing that fish do indeed feel pain. This will challenge the 'catch and release' part of the sport which was based upon the fish was not harmed in the catch/hooking.

In surgical procedures, there are no painkillers used on post surgical fishes. The incision is swabbed with a disinfectant after stitching. That is about all that is done these days.

The fish in such a condition as yours is susceptible to bacterial infection as well as attack from a host of opportunistic microbes (bacteria, fungal, etc.). The fish should be in isolation, and fed immune boosters (see: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ase-treatment/19728-fish-immune-boosters.html). The healing will be done by the fish.

When isolated it is a good idea to administer an antibiotic to keep some of the bacteria at bay. This use is more prophylactic than treatment.

Good luck.

 

[Caesar777]

Wow, excellent points brought up. Thanks!

I do think it's quite apparent that fish do feel pain--is that wriggling on the sharp piece of metal, hanging from that very wound, just an "instinctive reaction" and not a response to negative stimulus? But alas, I've never done any sort of research into it short of personal experience (used to fish as a kid, have had fish as pets all my life). So I can't say, as a scientist at heart, that my feeling is 100% true. But I think it's very likely. Regardless, I do feel bad watching his "sad" little face. His eyes light up when he's frightened--such as this experience as well as when I was catching him to bag him up and take him home--to a bright, reflective silver. Surely just a normal change in pigment, like rabbitfish hilariously turning that brown, blotchy camouflage-pattern at the slightest hint of fear. It's endearing, though, his little baby features and his big belly that gets so large when he eats that it looks like he's puffing out his chest to look tough.

Excellent point on the antibiotics; frankly, my initial emotional response brought me to think of the pain and sadness involved for him, and clouded my mind so I forgot about keeping it from getting worse! Do you think I should just feed him antibiotic-soaked food, or swab his wounds with something? I have access to those gel antibiotics at work (penicillin, ampicillin, tetracycline, and one other, can't remember--all are geared toward aquarium fish), although they smell terrible, reminiscent of licorice. I only got a few fish to eat it more than the initial "FOOD!!!" response, hehe. So I'm not sure if he'd eat it. Suggestions?

Thanks so much for the response and excellent info!

 

[leebca]

You're welcome!

For an injury, my preference is an external antibiotic treatment. But there's something to be said for an internal treatment, too. Tetracycline is a good internal/external kind of treatment and if you have access to it for saltwater fishes, then use it. This antibiotic is broad spectrum, killing both Gram Negative and Positive bacterias.

For a water treatment, I favor Maracyn Two for Saltwater Fishes. It penetrates the fish's skin and does the double duty (internal/external). This medicine usually only kills off the Gram Negative bacteria (and leaves the biological filter bacteria alone).

I don't think I'd swab the fish with any medicine unless you can see blood, internal organs, and/or bones. During healing, the injured area will become white and that is a good sign.

Don't forget to get the fish to eat immune boosters.

Where do you work that you have access to these antibiotics, if I may ask? :shock:

 

[Caesar777]

Yeah, I saw no blood whatsoever (but he's so tiny!--and my vision isn't what it used to be, and I'm only 22 years old!), but the injuries are definitely limited to just skin, a bit of muscle (two gouges, eek), and maybe a little connective tissue, and only in his tail and back; his most sensitive abdominal organs (and head) are safely intact. Will try feeding him antibiotics, as I have no QT and no space for one (I have pets in cages on the floor along the walls--three snakes and a hedgehog, hehe). If he gets worse, I'll bring him to work and set up a little QT there. (I work at a pet store. )

Thanks again!

 

[leebca]

You're welcome. Consider also treatments to help repair and replace its mucous coating. Products like: Pro Tech Coat Marine and StressGuard are good for this.

Good luck!

 

[Caesar777]

Awesome. Do you know offhand where I could get either of those products? (And do you know the manufacturer, by chance?) Is it carried by Petco, Petsmart, etc.? Or only a marine-specific place?

Upon the suggestion of adding a stress coat product by a buddy, I remembered that I had a small bottle of the new "Aqueon" brand (free sample from Central Pet, hehe--it's their new product line) water conditioner, so I added a dose. I only use RO, but along with chlorine-neutralizing chemicals, it also has some kind of agent that helps the stress coat; upon reading the ingredients, it's probably the "polyvinylpyrollidones"...Mixed it into some tank water and poured it slowly through the fuge, where the tang is, and, albeit a possible coincidence, his overly-sliming-up coat looks better now. There was a string of slime coming off his dorsal like some kind of filament, and that's gone. Note that the episode happened probably ten-fifteen minutes before my original post here. Fed him some Cyclopeeze just now and he's eating like a champ! He's a little skittish but learning, literally over the course of the evening, to be unafraid of me, my hands being in the tank, the Cyclopeeze bar chunk being held by forceps over his tank, and so on. Have been disturbing him as little as possible, of course, but he's clearly a quick learner. Has to be, seeing as he's just a baby and already has a rough start--not rare for any baby animal, especially one with along planktonic "childhood" before even settling out!

 

[leebca]

One or more of the sponsors here at Reef Frontiers most likely carries it. More likely found in a local fish store than a chain pet store. I don't know their manufacturers, but it should be easy enough to search on the Internet for that information (as well as online sites that sell either one or the other).

 

[Caesar777]

Yup, did a search. I'd like to get it tomorrow, so I'll just go by the lfs's to see if they have it. We don't have it where I work.

I guess I could call instead of driving all over the place, lol.