Flow in a 215

[pandora32]

Hey everyone! Hope all is great with you and your familys in the new year. 2012!!!
I posted a response to a guy here asking about which internal pumps to use in his tank. He was going back and forth between Koralias and maxi jet 1200. I told him I have 2 maxi jet 1200 on the back pane of my 215g. Somebody responded with...wow, thats all you got?...lol.
So my question about this is~
Do you guys count the returns in the total amount of flow you have?
If not, then my maxi jet 1200s set up as circulation pumps would equal out to 2600gph in the display.
Counting my return pump off my sump as well as the 2 maxi jets, 3740gph. Not including headloss.
Thats only 560gph less than the minimum 20x turnover. Right?Or am I missing something?
Please let me know what you would use as far as pumps, internal as well as a return pump, as I am now, after 2 years, starting to venture into the fun fun realm of sps!!
Heck! Who knows. MAYBE my clams will stop moving around!!:dance:

Jason

 

[Krish]

It all depends on your system and it's needs. You only need enough flow to where there are no deadspots in your tank because these are places waste/detritus settles and can cause water quality issues. Also, corals require good flow to bring their food to them. Sand will play a major role as well. Typically anyone running a sand bed has the possibility of creating a sand storm if the flow is too high so they are limited a bit in some cases.

With that said, I personally wouldn't recommend anything less than about 40-50x turnover although I personally run more. I ran roughly 4,000 gph in a 38 gal (just over 100x turnover). I however run bare bottom tanks. For me, flow is very important so I don't use sand to make use of my flow as much as possible. Every tank is different, but as mentioned your main thing is to make sure you don't have any deadspots.


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[pandora32]

Wow! That seems like alot. So what would you recomend to gain the type of flow I would need for a mix of softies, lps, as well as sps reef? I have a mix reef right now. My return is 1140gph and I have 1 maxi jet 1200 set up as circulation. My other maxi jet just went out lastnight. My return pump is 3/4 in and 3/4 out. On the outlet side I am running 3/4 vinyl hose up to the bulkheads. I have 2 locklines split inside the tank coming from 3/4 PVC. The tank is 6x2x2. Any recomendations?

 

[estanoche]

You can count your return as part of your flow - what is really great is putting it on a sea swirl or some other oscilator, so you can spread that flow around! Maybe throw a seaswirl or an oceans motions on those returns and really get them cranking out some random flow!!

Thats the key though - its not always about the pure gallons per hour of flow, its also about randomness... If you can have your flow crashing in places it can really round out the flow in your tank and bring your corals the food they need as well as eliminating dead spots..

 

[Krish]

I agree. It's not always about numbers although it does help achieve your goals. I used a sea swirl on my return on my 75gal and loved it, but you have to be careful with the back siphon when the return pump is shut off. They don't come with any provisions to break the siphon so you have to drill your own hole and still, it back siphons quite a bit. IMO, unless you are running modified maxijets, they won't provide much flow for your tank (or rather coverage). I used 3 maxijet 1200's and a tunze nano stream in a 24 gal aquapod so I can safely say 2 un- modified maxijets won't do a whole lot for a tank your size. I'd look into powerheads that provide you with a wide stream of flow like the tunze streams, ecotech etc and get something with a bit more gph than what the maxijets produce. I think the mj1200's put out just under 300 gph with a narrow stream at that so it won't provide you with a whole lot of coverage.


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[mercenary-grunt]

Mj 1200 put out 1300 in cerc. Mode. and are you sure your tank is 215? I have the same dementions and my tank is 180.

 

[Krish]

Mj 1200 put out 1300 in cerc. Mode. and are you sure your tank is 215? I have the same dementions and my tank is 180.

What do you mean by 1300 in cer mode? Are you referring to using multiple maxijets on a timer/wave maker?


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[mercenary-grunt]

no, they put out 1300gph with the cerculation attachments on. and 250gph as a sump/return.

 

[Krish]

no, they put out 1300gph with the cerculation attachments on. and 250gph as a sump/return.

A maxijet for a sump return?? Maxijets can't handle any head pressure and are usually only used in this fashion in an all in one tank when you have the pump sitting in the tank, but in a back compartment. Sitting in a sump underneath a stand pumping up to a tank won't happen. You'd be lucky to get a trickle out of it lol as they aren't pressure rated pumps but rather in tank circulation pumps. As for the circulation attachment, never heard of them. I've heard of people modding them but never heard of that one before. Would have to look in to it. If the circulation attachment is anything like a penductor (I think that's what they were called) they don't increase the gph of flow, but rather increase the velocity the water comes out at. Sort of like using a garden hose and putting your thumb over the open end to make the water spray harder and further. The gph of flow is the same and only the velocity changes. Not sure if this is how the circulation attachment works or what.


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[mercenary-grunt]

ill get some pics when i get off work.

 

[Krish]

Sounds good.


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[pandora32]

The circ attatchments are what I have on my 1200s. They came as an acc. in the box. You just switch the small impeller with the larger one in the box as well as the outlets. The box says its 1300 gph with the circulation attatchment on it and sumpn like 292 gph without it. They are the maxi jet 1200 pro.
Here is a link~
Marineland Maxi-Jet Pro Powerhead

 

[pandora32]

So Mr. Krish.
If I was to do a 40x turnover, Id be looking at 8600gph.
If I was to do a 50x turnover, Id be looking at 10,750gph!!
What kind of a return system would I be looking at for 10,750gph without using any internall circulation pumps (ie. eco-tech, tunze, maxi jets) or is that even possible?
So I would need 2x Hammerhead hybrid pumps from reeflo and an additional 990gph from another pump of some sort?
What size of return piping would I need then?
See...lol...now you all got me nervous!!!...lmao!

 

[pandora32]

And Mr. Mercenary, Sorry. My tank is actually 216.9g. Its 72x24x29. Sorry for the mistake and/or confusion.

 

[Krish]

So Mr. Krish.
If I was to do a 40x turnover, Id be looking at 8600gph.
If I was to do a 50x turnover, Id be looking at 10,750gph!!
What kind of a return system would I be looking at for 10,750gph without using any internall circulation pumps (ie. eco-tech, tunze, maxi jets) or is that even possible?
So I would need 2x Hammerhead hybrid pumps from reeflo and an additional 990gph from another pump of some sort?
What size of return piping would I need then?
See...lol...now you all got me nervous!!!...lmao!

Haha!! Whatever you do don't try and get all of that flow from your sump return if that is what you are referring to. . For starters your overflow would never handle 8,000+ gph of flow. A good rule of thumb is not to consider your sump return as major factor of overall flow for the tank. Personally I just use my sump return for surface agitation and nothing more. You will want to rely on either powerheads or a closed loop of some sort for your flow. I had over 5,000 gph of flow in my 75 gal at it was done using 2 tunze streams and a small closed loop. It's really not about how much flow you have but more importantly placement.


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[trido]

When I had my 210 mixed reef running I had 14,600GPH at one point and still didn't feel like it was enough flow. I used a pressure rated return pump (1200GPH), sequence hammerhead CL (5800GPH), a vortech MP20 (2000GPH) , maxi mod (2000GPH), and several tunze nano's (1200ea.) to acheive that much flow. Due to my aquascaping and ever growing SPS colonies I was always adding more flow.

After a major reaquascape and coral thinning I cleaned the tank out of all the pumps including the CL and picked up two larger tunze's (7000GPH total tank flow) and was very happy with the flow in the tank.

There are alot of variables to factor in with each tank. With SPS, you will want ALOT of flow.
Im currently running 2000GPH alternating (4000 total) on my 29gallon tank. When I set up my 65 gallon tank in the near future I plan to have a total of 6800GPH in the tank set on wave timers and constant but occasionally all of the pumps will be on at the same time.

 

[mercenary-grunt]

ok so pandora, already did my homework. thanks.

 

[pandora32]

I mostly have softies and lps and a couple pieces of lps. My wife doesnt want a bunch of pumps inside of the tank. Any ideas how I can "pesuade" her?...lol

 

[Krish]

I mostly have softies and lps and a couple pieces of lps. My wife doesnt want a bunch of pumps inside of the tank. Any ideas how I can "pesuade" her?...lol

Ask her if she rathers a few powerheads or algae and corals that won't do well . There are powerheads like thr vortechs that wont have wires coming out of the tank you can use and you can be creative and hide them a bit and then you can always do a closed loop. If you don't want to drill the tank it is still an option as you can to what they call an over the top closed loop. I did it on my 75 gal and came out nice. If you want to see pics, when I get home this afternoon and get to my computer I can post the pics.


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[trido]

I mostly have softies and lps and a couple pieces of lps. My wife doesnt want a bunch of pumps inside of the tank. Any ideas how I can "pesuade" her?...lol

I used to feel the same way as your wife. When I set up the 120 and then the 210 I tried very hard to not have powerheads. Electricity was finally what changed my mind. I got tired of paying and extra $100 a month just for a fish tank and eventually worked hard at reducing my bill.
IMO there isnt a single CL big enough to run a 180 or 210 with SPS in it so your automatically using two. An external pump that pushes near 6000GPH needs about 355 watts of juice. Two powerheads that push the same take only 45 watts of juice each. The energy hog will cost about $20 a month as opossed to five dollars from the two powerheads. Also, with quality powerheads like the Vortech or Tunze, Its real easy to set up a nice wave in the tank. The CL needs a sea swirl, Wavy sea or an Ocean Motions to create random chaotic flow. None of which don't really make a wave.

Powerheads if done right can be hidden or made less noticable. On my 210 I had to keep adding extra locline nozzles to help get more flow to corals or get rid of dead spots. I can tell you, 16 locline nozzles are just as noticable as two or four powerheads.

Alot or reefers with big tanks will claim that a CL is a must. One nice thing about a CL is that it can be plumbed remote to reduce the noise and also the sound is constant. My wife hated my tank when I removed my CL due to the ramping up of the Tunze's. I liked it because I couldn't hear the hum from my bedroom at the other end of the house.

Here is a pic of the 210 with all of the powerheads and CL. Show your wife this and ask her if the powerheads bother her.

I find I spend more time looking at the coral and fish than the at equipment