Formalin bath in low SG?

[Big E]

I have 3 C. collare that have flukes. I have them in hypo & also prazi-pro at the moment. I instituted the hypo as I wasn't sure if it was the first signs of ich or flukes. A few days later I added the prazi-pro for the flukes.

The fish seem to be getting worse. They have only been in prazi-pro for 1 1/2 days but it doesn't seem to be working so far. I am considering doing the formalin bath regime. Can this bath be done in 1.009 salinity they are currently in?

 

[leebca]

I have only read where it can be done. I don't know the safety nor that there is any really good idea for doing it. One problem is pH control. In the low saline solution the pH control will be very difficult and, pH is one parameter that needs to be controlled during the Formalin bath.

Proper diagnosis will go a long way to determining proper treatment. A 'shot gun' approach is often unsuccessful. If there is anyway you can narrow down the cause of their problems, it would be helpful in determining the way forward.

 

[Big E]

I don't get it..........they are still doing the head shaking & gill scratching. I raised the salinity back up. I haven't seen a single ich spot.

I've been treating prazi-pro for over a week for flukes. I dosed three times & today they are worse than ever. The gills are now starting to be affected.

I'm at a total loss. I guess I'll try formalin now. Very frustrating

 

[leebca]

Sorry to hear of this. Not fun, I'm sure. Be sure you follow the Formalin Bath guidelines and, just as a reminder, use no Formalin on any marine fish with an open sore or wound.

 

[Boomer]

The real issue with Formalin is not pH control, as it can be buffered but temp and its ability to reduce O2 is. The higher the temp the more toxic it is and the more acid the water is the more toxic it is. Temp cut-offs for low and temp and high temp is 70 F. Formalin baths @ 37 % std solution are common in FW. For a 1 hr treatments vigorous aeration must be provided for the fish. Dosage is 10 drops / 1 gal ( going by mL would be better) if temp is over 70 F. Fish must be observed for stress for the full hr.. If fish are already weak no longer than 30 min.. Longer duration baths are 1 drop /gal but the water must still be vigorously aerated. Tank is given a dosage ever other day for 3 treatments.

I am not a fan of Formalin by a long shot so you are on your own. I agree with Lee "shot-gun" method is not the means. Second, what makes you think they are flukes ? I'll say flat out they are not, just form your remarks. Got any pics ? I'll say you have Amyloodinium ocellatum, based on your comments and hypo is about useless, same for PraziPro. Chloroquine diphosphate is a safe and proven effective treatment for Amyloodinium ocellatum/Marine Velvet/Coral Reef Fish Disease. And Formalin is only a hit and miss thing with poor results. The issue is getting Chloroquine diphosphate and this is one source.

http://www.fishchemical.com

 

[Big E]

Boomer,

I don't know what is. The only symptoms are loss of appetite, head shaking, & gill scratching.

There are no visible parasites & nothing to be seen on a picture. They will look flawless in a picture.

 

[Boomer]

Are they having a hard time breathing. Meaning, the gill covers are moving very rapidly ? And is there any signs of a thickened mucous coat ? Amyloodinium ocellatum, can at times, just invade the gills and you will see the symptoms you have. If you look down the length of the fish, in good light, is there any sign of a "golden powdered" look ?

 

[Big E]

Wouldn't velvet have shown up by now? This has been going on for over a week?

Today is the first day I've seen rapid breathing.

 

[Big E]

I shined a 175w halide & used a magnifying glass & finally did see the dusting. I think you're right. It was difficult to see unless they were an inch from the glass.

So now I have to figure out a plan of action. First I have to do 100% water change to get out the Prazi. I already have the water.

Is there a commercial product that has Chloroquine diphosphate in it?

Or is my only option cupramine?

 

[Boomer]

Cooper is not very effective at all on velvet but as far as cooper goes Cupramine is the best.

Nobody sells these drug commercially anymore. Aquatronics and SeaChem use to many years ago. SeaChem has dropped it and Pete retired his company after 40 years in the hobby about 3 years ago. You an get it from the link I gave, no stores will have it.

What I would do and works for me with obligated parasites and has for 3 decades is......


1. Get 2-3 10 gal tanks all with the same seawater from the same batch of salt. Make the parameters as close as possible to the tank they are in, i.e, pH, Alk, temp and salinity.

2. Get a 5 gal bucket and a put in 4 gals and add 50 drops of Formalin.

3. Remove each fish and dip them in the bucket for only 10 min

4. Put fish in new 10 gal tank.

5. Each day move the fish to a new 10 gal, with the same parameters and dip each time again. Do this for 10 days.

6. Each time you go from one tank to the next you must clean the used 10 gal well so you can use it again with new seawater.

Since you have caught this late you will have to hope the fish are not to stressed by this method. This may be better for the fish than hitting them with cooper which is more stressful and toxic. It may be already to late to save them if they are not eating.

The purpose behind this method is not to treat the fish disease but to remove the cycle of the parasite. These parasites fall off the fish and must go through a "resting stage" where they will in time re-emerge to attack the fish again. Moving the fish stops this cycle, as they HAVE to have a fish as a host to continue the cycle.

 

[leebca]

Copper and especially Cupramine is one of the best treatments for Marine Velvet.

You'll find copper information here: Copper Medications - Good, Bad, and Ugly

In your quarantine tank add the Cupramine according to its directions. Use a Salifert Copper test kit to control the copper level. Cupramine is added twice to bring it into the effective range.

The quarantine tank must be setup without substrates or contents made of carbonate materials. You'll find guidelines for the quarantine tank here: A Quarantine Procedure

The diagnosing of Marine Velvet is pretty easy. Give the expected infected fish a freshwater dip like that given here: Fresh Water Fish Dip EXCEPT the fish only needs to be in the bath for 7-10 minutes. Check the bath water to see if you find tiny specs settling out of the water. They are just visible with the naked eye.

The above will confirm the presence of Marine Velvet in addition to other symptoms and what you think you see on the fish.

Unfortunately, the freshwater dip is not a cure. Only a diagnostic aid. Not all Marine Velvet parasites are at a stage in their life cycle where the FW dip will get them off the fish.