Frustrations with coral health

[eww]

I just don't get it. We have been having really good growth and health ever since we started the tank in May but in the last 4-6 weeks things have taken a turn for the worse. About 1/2 of our Zoa's aren't opening anymore (all the higher end ones anyway). We have lost a really nice large chalice piece (it's in the QT now on it's last leg). Water chemistry is good with all the correct parameters. Skimmer is a little tricky to dial in but we get a full cup of scum every few days or so. It's a SWC Mini S Cone that was installed replacing a EuroReef RS100 when we swapped the sump out about 2 months ago. When we changed the sump we changed from a DSB with tons of macro and pods growing like crazy and decided to try a bare bottom sump and only a little bit of macro's. I've seen no pods in the sump since the change. The hair algae and cyano is almost gone so that's a good thing but the rest is pretty frustrating. The Mg had dipped a bit so we raised it back up with Tech M and it killed the small amount of bryopsis we had really quick but it seems to have bleached some of the softies out. Will the color come back? I have increased our water changes to every week the last few weeks trying to see if it helps and it doesn't seem to be yet. All the fish and the two cleaner shrimp seem to be healthy, although our Starry Blenny decided to commit suicide and jumped out of the tank. It was still alive when we found it and I put it in the QT but it died that night. Oh and we have some purple clove like ppolyps that we thought were really cool on one rock that have now spread to every rock in the tank and now they're not so cool. Can't get them out unless we remove the rock and scrub it off??? Removing the rock is not an option though. Can't wait to build the new 180 out and start over. I hope things will be different in that tank. Sorry about the run on and griping but this is the best place we have found to vent as our family just looks at us like we are crazy when we complain about things dying in our "fish tank". It's just fish isn't it?:Cry::noidea:

 

[thatguy559]

how old or the bulbs? maybe a color shift is causing the corals to close up. i know when i made the switch to plasma all my corals closed up for about a week and i thought i just killed off my whole tank. then they started to loose their color.....but they are making a comeback the poclipora colony i have use to be a dark forrest green and now its starting to get bright lime green. most of the zoanthids morphed into something with more of a purple and blue base color.

 

[eww]

We played with the color spectrum for the first few months before settling on what we have now. All the bulbs are new from mid October. We are running T5's on IceCap 660's with ICR's, all the good stuff when it comes to T5's. The bulb combination we settled on is 2 ATI Blue+, 1 ATI Blue Special and 1 KZ Fiji Purple.

 

[thatguy559]

hMMm i dont know then.....i wish it was something simple and overlooked?

 

[eww]

How about this??? When we changed to the new sump we also started using filter socks on the return line. They are the felt type from BRS and need to be changed every few days as they plug up. I wash them in the cloths washer which is a new front loader style.I run it on the 2 hr sanitary cycle and only run bleach with an extra rinse cycle programed in. I don;t put them in the dryer. I let them air dry at least overnight. Could the bleach be leaving residue and leaching into the tank you think? Should I stop using the filter socks al together or is there a better way of cleaning them?

 

[thatguy559]

i use filter socks as well.... did you wash them fist before using with no soap or bleach? i wash mine with a capfull of bleach and use a normal cycle with extra rinse then i flip them inside out and wash it again with no bleach.

 

[markdadof2]

I bleach my filter socks as well - extra rinse and never had a problem. I'm wondering if your nutrient levels are extremely low. I brought mine down too far and started to get some bleaching.

 

[eww]

Well we have been trying to reduce the hair algae and cyano and it's been working. Maybe we are stripping the water too clean???

 

[thatguy559]

see its always good to brainstorm to figure out often overlooked problems because of frustration

 

[NC2WA]

personally, i would have not used bleach..when i wash my tank towels, they are in their own load, hot water, very little detergent and NO bleach.

what is your pH?
with the Mg vacillating, maybe this is playing havoc on your pH?

do you have a pic of your LR/algae/bryopsis?

 

[eww]

personally, i would have not used bleach..when i wash my tank towels, they are in their own load, hot water, very little detergent and NO bleach.

what is your pH?
with the Mg vacillating, maybe this is playing havoc on your pH?

do you have a pic of your LR/algae/bryopsis?

The PH is sitting perfect at 8.2 - 8.3. I will see what I can dig up on pics of before and current algae shots. Will hot water alone kill all the badies in the filter socks? I don't want to create a nitrate issue by not getting them clean.

 

[eww]

Here is a shot from a about a month ago...

And a shot from tonight...

Notice the hair algae is not gone but it's significantly less. I don't have a shot of the bryopsis and it's completely gone now.

Here are a couple of other shots from tonight showing some bleaching and some not so open corals.

 

[TJL]

Hey Eric, yep its pretty frustrating when things go less than good for all the work/passion we put into our systems. I to have been having similar issues and like you I did a major change in the fuge (cleaned up & removed 90% of floating macro mat then replanted the rest in mud bed) which was bound to make a significant change in water chemistry/bio-load processing. I'm now past most of the ugly part of cycle Red Cyano + Green Slime algae. I had a little reccession on a few sps & lps and zoas did not appreciate the cyano suffocating them one bit but have mostly recovered in the past week. I upped my water change schedule and added a GFO reactor (Two Little Fishies PhosBan 150)to system to help it along. So hang in there buddy and we can both look forward to getting our new larger systems up & running sometime soon.


Todd

 

[Scooterman]

Hey Eric, some food for thoughts, so don't take it too seriously but here goes.

First, don't go ape crazy trying this and that and throwing everything at it, trying to resolve every issue. Things don't happen in a hurry, well not recovery from issues anyways. :tape2:
1.) Fluorescents don't put out peak power for two years as they say and just looking bright doesn't prove anything, not saying this is the issue but making the point.
2.) bring water to someone else, hopefully more experienced, get it retested and compare to your test as recent as you can, plan it ahead of time to do both and write them down, keep a log book.
3.) You have enough algae to provide growth, so no your tank isn't clean enough LOL!
4.) Never add chemicals to raise up levels to perfection, always pace yourself, nothing comes good of sudden change, having perfect levels means nothing, don't panic, especially if your not seeing die offs etc. (I know your case may be slightly different but same goes). Get it close but don't panic with it if it isn't exact.
5.) Process of elimination, double check everything you think is right, (everyone has their own opinion of great levels) eliminate each one carefully.
6.) Ask for help, read and learn, use the Resource libraries we have, you won't find a better source on the Internet anywhere, search and read from reliable resources, learn to distinguish the difference because there IS a difference.
7.) We all get disappointed and have let downs, especially when you work so hard to get everything right, I don't know anyone who has never has a crash or major issues, it is the sad part of the hobby but even when things are that bad the wise can learn from this.

I know I haven't solved any real issues here but hope I at least offered some good advise that may help.

 

[returnofsid]

I can comment on the bleaching and it is caused by the Kent Tech M. Also, Yes, the coral color will return, but it may take a couple of months. I've experienced this recently, along with several other people I know, who have used Tech M to battle Briopsis. Most of my Zoanthids bleached, a Poccilopora bleached and a Turbinaria reinformis bleached. They are all just starting to retain their original color.

When I first read your post, and hadn't even finished reading it yet, my first though was low Magnesium. However, with the Magnesium boost, that doesn't seem to be the case. What are your levels for Alkalinity and Calcium? Is there anything else that you are dosing?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

You are a doser, and I always suspect chemistry in a dosed tank that makes a turn for the worse.
Stick to good water changes without dosing for awhile, and run good carbon

 

[Scooterman]

You are a doser, and I always suspect chemistry in a dosed tank that makes a turn for the worse.
Stick to good water changes without dosing for awhile, and run good carbon

Agreed, good advise! Very simple solution to start with a problem, not over complicating it.

 

[eww]

I can comment on the bleaching and it is caused by the Kent Tech M. Also, Yes, the coral color will return, but it may take a couple of months. I've experienced this recently, along with several other people I know, who have used Tech M to battle Briopsis. Most of my Zoanthids bleached, a Poccilopora bleached and a Turbinaria reinformis bleached. They are all just starting to retain their original color.

When I first read your post, and hadn't even finished reading it yet, my first though was low Magnesium. However, with the Magnesium boost, that doesn't seem to be the case. What are your levels for Alkalinity and Calcium? Is there anything else that you are dosing?

I'm not sure how the Mg spiked like it did. I used the reef calculator in your signature and spread the dosage out over 2 or 3 days trying to achieveraising it from a 1100 to a 1400 level and bam it was suddenly 1700+. Whoops. The water changes have brought it back down to 1500 as of last night. Calcium is 400 and Alk is 8.5 dKH per tests last night. I like the idea that Scooty mentioned about testing the water myself then having it tested again by someone else. Thank you for all your input Scooty. It dies not fall on deaf ears here. We have done this before and everything checked out but that was then, this is now. I will have to see about doing this again. My dosing regiment has been 50ml of BRS Recipe 1 Alk solution every night before bed and after the lights go out and 50 ml of BRS Recipe 1 Ca solution every morning when I wake up. These are added to the overflow in the main tank so they have time to mix with the water when it travels through the sump and returns to the main tank.

 

[eww]

You are a doser, and I always suspect chemistry in a dosed tank that makes a turn for the worse.
Stick to good water changes without dosing for awhile, and run good carbon

Thanks Mike. Sounds like a good starting point. I will stop dosing. Should we stay at every 2 weeks water changes or move it up to every week? We have been running BRS ROX 0.8 carbon in a filter bag in the sump since mid October. I have changed it twice since then. Should I be changing it more often?

I know you and I have talked about the KW reactor in line on the ATO but I haven't set it up yet mainly because of space for the mixer/reactor. The current stand is wall to wall sump and Becca says no way to equipment sitting on the floor next to it when it's in the dining room. I had to drill holes through the wall behind the tank for access into a closet for the ATO container but it is sharing space with the washer/dryer and lots of other storage. I might be able to fit a reactor in there if I just pushed a little harder... The new bigger tank will have lots more room under the tank for stuff like this.

 

[Scooterman]

Boomer once told me to stop dosing everything, keep up the WC's and wait until it was straightened out then start testing again and dosing as required. You probably can get away with dosing less and still do great, high numbers are just a guide line not cut in stone must have. A slow and steady balance is much better even when low than any sudden jumps. Your algae you can get under control in time, just keep harvesting it, that is a good export also.
I think your doing well on carbon, just make sure it doesn't become a detritus trap, If so then you may need to rinse it more frequently. I like the method when you use a reactor and just add/remove partial changes of carbon more frequently but that is just one idea. I also used the Black Diamond, if isn't the very best but it is a good carbon, just needs more rinsing to start with and it is much cheaper but I preferred replacing it more frequently. I guess it is a half dime, nickel or the other LOL!