Harlequin shrimp and coldwater/coastal starfish

[Sierramists1]

I'm just curious to know - has anyone ever fed their harleys the starfish that are found on the beaches over here? It would sure be a lot cheaper than buying a chocolate chip 2x/month for a pair. Assuming they accept them, I wonder what would happen with water quality as the starfish would obviously have to be frozen first. Perhaps feeding just 1 leg every once and a while? What does everyone think? :biggrin:

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I trained mine to eat frozen juvenile Puget sound sun star legs. They were also supplemented with occasional chocolate chip stars and always had astarina...

 

[Sierramists1]

That's interesting! How did you train them? Just offer it to them after eating a chocolate chip? I know of a beach that is pretty free of pollution that is filled with Mottled Sea Stars (Evasterias troschelli). Do you see any reason as to why this wouldn't work? I'm considering to go out and buy 1 harley to see if it would accept this.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Harley's are a lot of work, and a big commitment. Don't buy one unless you have an astarina problem or a lot of time and money to feed them while you train them...

They will not eat dead food after they are already fed.
When they get hungry and are out patrolling, wave the leg in front of them and require them to muscle it away from the tweezers. Once they capture it, they can assume it has been neutralized and will consume it.

 

[BlennyBabe]

just FYI, its illegal to collect sea stars from Washington state. Unless you have a scientific collection permit, they are a no take species.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

just FYI, its illegal to collect sea stars from Washington state. Unless you have a scientific collection permit, they are a no take species.

We must protect all our parks, but as to collecting away from them:

"Shellfish and Seaweed Harvesting

Edible Northwest shellfish, abundant on many park beaches, can be harvested in season. Clamming, crabbing and oystering are excellent at Shine Tidelands (near the Hood Canal Bridge), while sheltered Camano Island has mussels, clams, crab and shrimp. Ocean City, Pacific Pines and other coastal parks are the place to dig razor clams. Other good shellfish-gathering spots include Spencer Spit, South Whidbey, Twanoh and Mystery Bay.

You must have a Washington state shellfish license to harvest shellfish, squid, octopus, sea cucumbers and seaweed. For license information call the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) at (360) 902-2464. For current season openings call WDFW at (360) 796-3215."

As an undesignated item, appears only have to worry about limits.

"A Combination or a Shellfish/Seaweed License is required for all shellfish (except crawfish ) and SEAWEED harvest. A license is not required for unclassified marine invertebrates even though daily limits exist. A catch record card, and endorsement is required to fish for DUNGENESS CRAB in Puget Sound, see Recreational Crab Fishin"

"UNCLASSIFIED MARINE INVERTEBRATES



ALL AREAS

ALL SPECIES

CLOSED

No min. size. Daily limit 5 qts. or 10 lbs., plus up to 5 HUMBOLDT SQUID. Legal gear is a forage fish jig, a maximum of 4 squid lures, forage fish dip net, or a hand dip net. Each harvester must have a separate container.



Some of the more popular types of these species are: Moon Snails, Nudibranchs, Graceful crab, kelp crab, starfish, sand dollars, shore crab, snails"

Shellfish and Seaweed Harvest Rules - Crab, Shrimp & Crawfish | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

 

[AquaticEngineer]

I'm not sure what you were trying to say with the above post, but in the above post it does state:

UNCLASSIFIED MARINE INVERTEBRATES: ALL AREAS, ALL SPECIES, CLOSED

I've read the WA, and OR collection regs and in WA state there is no collection of starfish allowed unless you have a scientific collection permit. Which they do not issue to the general public.

Oregon on the other hand you may take up to 10 unclassified marine invertebrates per person per day.

 

[Sierramists1]

To anyone wondering about an update:
The two began eating cut up pieces of frozen stars the moment I offered them...

 

[Stomatopod]

How long have you guys been feeding them frozen? I tried giving my pairs frozen linkias once a week (my lfs sold them) and all my harlequin got sucked into filters, powerhead intakes, and one was blown around by a powerhead, then I found it dead in the corner. Can they handle that much water flow? My petco brand powerhead is 225 gph (in my 29 reef) and the filter was the built in one for the fluval spec desktop kit. Mine also looked like they where paper instead of a plastic figure like they were starving and I was wondering if the frozen diet had something to do with it and they where took weak to handle the water flow..

 

[Herefishyfishy]

How long have you guys been feeding them frozen? ...

I did it for years when was keeping them

I tried giving my pairs frozen linkias once a week (my lfs sold them) and all my harlequin got sucked into filters, powerhead intakes, and one was blown around by a powerhead, then I found it dead in the corner. Can they handle that much water flow? ...

Yes they can handle flow, but as with all creatures, they need places with low flow. If they got sucked into a power head, something else was wrong, perhaps an antiquated or wrong type power head. Was it an uncovered maxijet?

Keep in mind, these are not beginner marine aquarium wildlife, best after you are confident on the needs of each and every life form before putting it into your tank. Description and pictures of your system are always of help here

 

[Stomatopod]

Sadly all the systems used housing harlequins where taken down... a few days ago all my fish were dropping and breathing heavy so I took them out and put them in my mantis tank (I remove him first don't worry..). my first harlequin got sucked into the filter my 2 gallon, that one lived 3 days on me.. The powerhead that caused all the other deaths was a petco brand.. the box was white and blue, and it just said "Powerhead" and nothing else.. (I have the links for all this but im new here and I need to make atleast 3 post..) the second death I saw a harlequin stuck in the intake of that powerhead. I also had a camel shrimp laying dead in the front of the tank so it could be something else there. That harlequin I had in the same 2 gallon (with modifications on the filter this time) and he swam striaght up.. and then striaght down out of no where and layed upside down, so I relocated him into the 29 gallon after that where the powerhead accidents began to happen. I had him in the 2 gallon for about a month.. then I had him in the 29 for 2 months until he died. The last time I got hair algae real bad and was told to turn the powerhead back on and the harlequin went flying all around the tank not half a second after I turned it on.. then it gripped to an over-hang. I left to buy distilled water for a water change minutes later. I returned back home in like 5 minutes and the harlequin was in the back corner dead. The last one I had for 2 months.. it was paired with the second one for about a month.. then was single for the next month until death. (she was a picta and he was an elegan so they didn't stay near each other alot... they were male and female tho and ate together but they would seperate here and there.)

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. The first and biggest problem is failure to learn where to start with a system. A two gallon tank is nearly impossible to maintain. The larger the system, the more stabile. Stability is the number one priority in marine aquariums. Read a couple books, spend some time reading Reef Frontiers and learn the hobby. When done right, it is fun, easy, and quite rewarding. Avoid most Petco equipment and advice. Good luck and do not quit.

 

[Stomatopod]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. The first and biggest problem is failure to learn where to start with a system. A two gallon tank is nearly impossible to maintain. The larger the system, the more stabile. Stability is the number one priority in marine aquariums. Read a couple books, spend some time reading Reef Frontiers and learn the hobby. When done right, it is fun, easy, and quite rewarding. Avoid most Petco equipment and advice. Good luck and do not quit.

I know its fun and rewarding! I got rid of the 2 gallon for the difficultly purposes. I'm setting up a 125 gallon so believe me quiting isn't in my mind at all! I've just went through trial and error soo many times.. and the deaths of all my harlequins are the most un-solved (except the mass extinction of my 55 gallon...) and the only reason I haven't had another since.. I can't feed them a live star or cut a leg off.. I couldn't harm a fly.. I don't mind freezing one personally if my lfs runs of out frozen but I can't watch anything suffer like the harlequin does to the star. Harlequin shrimp are IMO the second most amazing animals ever (first is mantis nothing can top their abilities). Even tho I joined today, I've been reefing from my 14th birthday (9/17/12). My first animal was an orange spot mantis which my parents wanted rid of after it hit the glass a few times (we weren't expecting it to be crazy like they are and it scared us a little.. now we have a huge peacock we treat like a dog). One stupid mistake I made was in the same 2 gallon.. I traded the orange spot mantis for a peppermint shrimp, horseshoe crab, pencil urchin, and scarlet reef hermit... in a 2 gallon... They got donated to a library aquarium shortly in a week... Then I decided to do harlequin shrimp after my lfs said they sold frozen stars... and thats when it all began. Meanwhile before I got the second harlequin, I was working on my 29 gallon tank.
Speaking of petco.. I'm training all the employees there.. only one listens and he only has had success with anything. My real LFS actually know what their doing.. I just bought the powerhead from petco due to price, and that I never seen a powerhead before at the time. I do buy alot of fish from petco to save their lifes. I saved two scooter blennies, and a sailfin tang from disease which all the other fish had, and starvation as petco had no idea what they even ate when I asked. Btw, I can't really explain my water quality in the main tank but.. I managed to have two upside down jellies alive for about a month if that means something incase we're thinking something bad in the water killed a harlequin or two.

BTW here is the 2 gallon I used: Desktop & Nano Aquariums: Fluval SPEC Desktop Aquarium Kit
And the exact powerhead: Petco Power Head at PETCO

 

[Herefishyfishy]

BTW here is the 2 gallon I used: Desktop & Nano Aquariums: Fluval SPEC Desktop Aquarium Kit
And the exact powerhead: Petco Power Head at PETCO

That type power head is for powering something else like an under gravel filter. If used to simply move water, needs a sponge to cover the intake or it will catch and kill any livestock that swims or crawls toward the intake. To keep livestock alive any length of time requires good water quality only found with a LOT of live rock, frequent partial water changes and very good skimming. An example of a long lifespan is my harlequin serpent star. Have had it in four different displays over a span of a dozen years. Catastrophic die offs come from poor water and or disease. Avoid bringing home any new fish, the ones you have are undoubtedly infested with marine Ich. Read up on how to maintain a tank in the forum:
Marine Fish Discussion with Lee Birch
starting with the string on Marine Ich:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/

 

[Stomatopod]

That type power head is for powering something else like an under gravel filter. If used to simply move water, needs a sponge to cover the intake or it will catch and kill any livestock that swims or crawls toward the intake. To keep livestock alive any length of time requires good water quality only found with a LOT of live rock, frequent partial water changes and very good skimming. An example of a long lifespan is my harlequin serpent star. Have had it in four different displays over a span of a dozen years. Catastrophic die offs come from poor water and or disease. Avoid bringing home any new fish, the ones you have are undoubtedly infested with marine Ich. Read up on how to maintain a tank in the forum:
Marine Fish Discussion with Lee Birch
starting with the string on Marine Ich:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f15/marine-ich-myths-facts-27003/

Oh don't worry, the only fish I got from petco were: sally lightfoot crab (they had him in a tank with a niger trigger in a 5 gallon...), 2 scooter blennies (the first one I asked what he's eating and they said pellets... so I recused him and later on another one), and a sailfin tang. I quartined them all for a few weeks and I never see the tang ever go to my peppermint shrimp like my friend's yellow tang did when I gave him my peppermint (from the 2 gallon...). On the 29 gallon I had: Marineland canister c-160 (first basket was bio-balls with a clothe on top. Second basket I had carbon and I added crushed coral to it, and the third basket had 2 foam blocks.) Marineland Bio-wheel Penquin 150. Instant ocean Seaclone hang-on protien skimmer, and that power head. Tankmates at the time were: Sponge decorator crab (got rid of him he killed my very first scooter blenny before the recused ones and yellow angelfish.0, camel shrimp (died same day as the harlequin stuck in the powerhead), fire shrimp (disappeared), lots of hermit crabs (red leg/ yellow leg mixed), 2 ocellarius clowns, sexy shrimp, yellow watchman goby, pom pom crab (my pom pom crab lived and paired with my watchman..), mangrove pistol (which never paired and disappeared), rock boring urchin from diver's den (disappeared.. I'm blaming harlys on that one), pencil urchin (fell victum to my 55 gallon mass extinction), lots of turbo snails, and nertite snails, peppermint shrimp, bangai cardinal, and a green banded goby.

OH and btw, one thing I noticed was I had a fan worm in there, and my harlequins just decided to host it like an anemone? They stayed near the fan worm like my sexy shrimp stayed on my mushroom corals.. Are there any reports of harlequins hosting something?