Heater/Electrical Problems

[mungus]

This morning I woke up and my heater had burned up and exploded in my sump. The circuit breaker had tripped and the power was off. Nothing in the display looks any worse for the wear Thank goodness!! I am wondering if I should replace all the water in my sump before starting up my return pump? I don't think I want any of that water in my display. My other question is why wouldn't the GFI outlet trip before the breaker? It kinda concerns me that it didn't.

Thanks

Brian

 

[shallowreef]

Yes deffinately. The heater will release a brownish liquid into your tank and that is not something you want to putinto your tank. I would drain completely and wipe down the sides or flush it out with clean water two or three times. Sorry to hear about the heater. Its a pain in the a## but it could've been worse. Good Luck

finally 2,000 posts!

 

[Scooterman]

A GFCI is protection of the people rather than circuit protection but it will trip if overloaded also, just your breaker was doing its job. They have a test button, push it & try it out. I doubt it would be bad but I would want to change the water out also just to be safe.

 

[LakeEd]

Brian,

If you have the capability, I would also drain all water out of your sump, wipe it down well, then refill... before getting your return back running again as well. Just to be safe!

As for why a GFCI didn't trip before a breaker;

In my understanding... GFCI's are our safety circuits for when something in our tanks short out to ground. Your circuit breaker trips when that circuit is pulling more amps than that circuit is rated for. I would guess there is no path directly to ground from your sump... so when your heater broke, it instantly drew more amps... tripping the circuit breaker. If there would of been most likely a fraction of a second longer, yet no added amperage draw (above the rating of your circuit breaker), current would of found a way to ground, and it would of been your GFCI that had tripped.

I'm sure this is a very simplified explanation... and hopefully one that isn't too simple for those that are perfectionists here... but one that helped you understand how both a circuit breaker, and the GFCI's help protect us on our tanks.

 

[Scooterman]

Actually when the GFCI sees a difference of potential between common & ground it would trip but when the glass broke water completed the circuit basically making a dead short, that is why the GFCI didn't trip, unless it isn't wired properly.

 

[Paul B]

Your sump has no ground, but it should

 

[mungus]

Thanks everyone. It looks like my weekend is going to be fun filled.:lol: Scotter and Ed thanks for the explanation on the GFI's. That makes perfect sense. I just wanted to make sure it was working properly so I wouldn't get zapped to badly if my hand would have been in the water.


Thanks
Brian

 

[Krish]

Sorry to hear that Brian, but I'm happy nothing suffered as a result. I'd do the water change in the sump as well to be safe

 

[mungus]

Your sump has no ground, but it should

Paul how do you go about grounding your sump?

Thanks
Brian

 

[burning2nd]

just a thought but depending on how your sump is setup (pluming wise) you could just mix up what ever you need to replace the water in the sump,

pore the water in the side that the sump gets its water, and use the return pump to pump the bad water out in to a bucket.


unless its just eazyer to suck it all out, and pore it back in.

 

[Scooterman]

Brian, I think Paul is referring to a ground probe!

 

[mungus]

Sorry to hear that Brian, but I'm happy nothing suffered as a result. I'd do the water change in the sump as well to be safe

Thanks Krish. I will be changing the water as soon as I get a chance. The bad part is I am stuck at work for another 9 or so hours. It drives me nuts not being able to get started. I have about 15 gallons of mixed SW all ready to go in case of emegency. I will still have about 50 to make up when I get home.

What do you guys think about this controller with a titanium heating element. Good, Not so Good?

http://diyreef.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=76&products_id=412

Brian

 

[mungus]

Brian, I think Paul is referring to a ground probe!

Scooter what is the verdict on these? I have seen people saying they are a must and I have seen people say that you should never use one.

Brian

 

[Scooterman]

I would use one IF you have a working GFCI only, without it no, it isn't safe.

 

[mungus]

Thanks Scotter!!

After talking with Deb from DIY I am going to skip the aqua medic and go with the ranco.

Thanks
Brian

 

[Paul B]

Any water near electricity should have a ground. I have been an electrician for almost 40 years and a ground makes everything safer. Also if you are using a GFI or as they are more properly called a GFCI they will not work unless the water is grounded, thats why the breaker tripped. If the water had been grounded the GFI would have tripped a long time before the breaker tripped. Even if no GFI is used the water should be grounded. This should be done because if there is no ground in the water and for some reason the water gets electrified by either a cracked wire in a powerhead or salt creep touching a lamp socket, whatever, when you stick your hand in there you will probably (but not always) get a shock, depending on a few things. Anyway, if the water has a ground in it, the breaker will trip shutting off the current.

 

[mungus]

Thanks Paul. That makes sense to me. I will have to see about getting one.

Thanks Again
Brian

 

[Scooterman]

Even if no GFI is used the water should be grounded. .

This would not be safe Paul. Read this!

http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM/Aquarium/GFI&TechnicalDetails.html

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=200772&postcount=15

 

[-=dieseldave=-]

what kind of heater was it?

 

[mungus]

what kind of heater was it?

It was a visa therm 300W. I won't buy anything made of glass any more. It's titanium all the way for me. This is the second time I've had a glass one go. The first one was due to my stupidity though.:lol:

Brian