HELP! Red cyano bacteria

[kdwal]

I had a small outbreak of red cyano a while back and bought some "chemi-Clean" from LFS. Used as directed and after 48 hrs. the cyano was gone, did a partial water change and all was well. Now, I have a huge outbreak, have dosed the tank twice and the stuff is still taking over. Any suggestions on what I should do now? Things are really getting ugly in there. Need help and suggestions quickly please.

 

[wooddood]

what kinda flow do you have in the tank? i would increase the water flow and maybe try the chemi-clean again. i have always had success with it. good luck.



dave.

 

[wrightme43]

More flow!!!! Take a turkey baster and blow off your live rock. Let it filter out and do it again. Rinse or replace bonded filter media. Nassirus snails eat it.(the cyano) Pick it out with your hands if its on the sand bed. Try a polyfilter, chemi impregnated kind. Baster your live rock again. If you get rid of what it lives on (detirus) it will die off. I have never used chemi-clear so I dont know if it works or not. I hope this helps you.

 

[NaH2O]

Kathy - there is something that is fueling the cyano. Whether it is bulbs that need replacing, perhaps RO/DI filters need replacing, nutrients coming from the rock or sand bed - if you find out where the problem began, it will help you beat it. I'm not a fan of the cyano-removing chemicals. They target all bacteria not just cyano, so you will lose some beneficial bacteria, too - not to mention it is merely a bandaid to the bigger problem. Cyano is a great user of nutrients, you can siphon it up and therefore would be exporting nutrients. I would take a phosphate test (provided it isn't the bulbs or RO/DI filters) from the water column, then from the rock, and if a sandbed is present, from the sand bed. Lets see what caused it to grow in the first place.

OK - I just noticed in your signature that the tank is only a few months old, and has a DSB. I wouldn't think your bulbs would be wasted, yet, if they were new. How about the RO/DI?

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

NaH2O is right! The bottom line is something is fueling this. No doubt about it. Chemi-Clean is great but its just a band-aid on a cut throat and a temp fix at best.

Like NaH20 said, siphon or scoop as much up as possible. Check water for Phosphates and such and if you get a reading deal with it straight up. Water changes with RO/DI will help along with filter media designed for that purpose of removing phosphates and what not. If you have negleted your filtration such as cleaning the spounges and what not then take care of that. Increase the water flow if you keep getting it in loaclized areas when it first breaks out as this is a sure sign of inadequate flow or dead areas in your tank. Run that skimmer like there is no tomorrow and get as much crap out of your water so you dont continue to feed it.

If its not too bad its best to try these one at a time and see which one helps the most so you can see exactly where your lacking at. It will go a long way in preventing a repeat showing at a tank near you.

A long term help is a refugium with lots of macro-algae, if you dont have one. I consider mine an essential part of my filtration system. Before adding them to my tanks I had a few run ins with this stuff and havent had a problem since on tanks with refugiums installed and working well.

Just some suggestions to think about and that I hope will help. Good luck!

 

[kdwal]

That's what I don't understand, bulbs are new, have plenty of flow,PH a 600 & 800 with the W/D & protien skimmer and another 600 (?I think) on the other end of the tank (30g tank). As you said Nikki, lights are pretty new so I doubt that is a problem. Noticed last night that the skimmer hardly had anything in it. don't know if the flow regulator got bummped or something, cleaned the hoses and readjusted the flow on the skimmer last night. Could that have been part of the problem? I do use the turkey baster and partial water changes regularly, RO water is same as I have used since setting up the tank. Peeled a bunch of cyano off sand bed last night, then vaccumed what I could. Water parameters have been stable. I'll check them again today. thanks for the input, reading your advise is a lot simpler than some other resources I read before, which are very "chemically detailed". is it true nass snails will help with cyano? Thanks again, here's hoping I can gain the upper hand.

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

To my knowledge and I am not expert but I dont think there is anything that will consume this stuff perse`. What Nassarious and Cerith Snails will do for you though is stir the top layer of your sand bed if its not crushed coral and remove a lot of the crude that settles into your sand bed and has a tendency to build up. I usually stock these snails at a ratio of 1 per every 1.5 to 2 gallons of water in my systems and find that they help keep things tidy for me. Sand sifting stars will do the same thing to a some what lesser extent as will the Micro-sized Dwarf Blue Leg Hermits which I very much favor over Scarlet Reef Hermits. Fighting Conchs are very good for this as well but I dont recommend these on a tank less that 50 gallons.

A healthy sized clean up crew will go a aweful long ways in keeping things tidy for you in the long term. In my 135 I am sure there is at least 200 snails, 150 hermits, a fighting conch and various other sand stiring critters there. The only algaes I have are a slight powdering on the glass occasionally and coralline algae. So I am sold on generous clean up crews as well as my refugiums....Oh and there aint a skimmer on that SPS and Clam tank BTW (dont really recommend that move unless your ducks are in a row and even then its a bit risky)

 

[kdwal]

I know I need to add more to the clean-up crew as some of my original have disappeared, don't know who got them, either the blue-leg hermit, which I just traded out last week, or the green brittle-star. I think the brittle star has been feeding on everything! The LFS here in town all of a sudden don't have a large quantity of snails to purchase. Was looking on-line last night for ordering, but I have never ordered anything live for my tank before and I am just a little skittish about it. That's where I was reading that the nass would chomp on cyano. Thanks........

 

[Angelscrx]

I know I need to add more to the clean-up crew as some of my original have disappeared, don't know who got them, either the blue-leg hermit, which I just traded out last week, or the green brittle-star. I think the brittle star has been feeding on everything! The LFS here in town all of a sudden don't have a large quantity of snails to purchase. Was looking on-line last night for ordering, but I have never ordered anything live for my tank before and I am just a little skittish about it. That's where I was reading that the nass would chomp on cyano. Thanks........

www.garf.org has great critter packages. You tell them what you have and they tell you what you need and they are probably the most helpful sellers you will ever talk to.

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

Well I whole heartedly recommend ReefTopia. There might be someplace cheaper but I havent forund them yet. They have excellent price breaks for quanities as well as each and anything over $120 is free shipping. I have ordered well over a 1000 individual snails or hermits from them in three orders and I have not been let down to date. I go crazy at that place when I start ordering! Just a possible lead for you.

The Green Serpent Stars do have that reputation especially as they grow bigger, Brittles I havent herd of this being much of a problem. Just feed them s ascooby Snack every now and again and that should keep them on the straight and narrow a bit more. Never herd of them ambushing clean up crew unless they were shrimp but...

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

GARF is definitely too cool and sure enough they will taylor a package to your needs but they are much more costly

In your case as a minimum, I would order 24 micro hermits, 12 certh, 12 nassarious and at least 24 Asteria snails. I usually order a tad more quanity wise so if I lose a couple over the next several months I am still well stocked. As such I would probably bump the Nassarious and Cerths up to 24 each. I would also go prehaps a few more on the asteria or add some Nerite or other snail to the mix. Keep in mind that different snails are a bit more adept at cleaning different things. The Nassarious are great on the snad bed. The Ceriths will do great in the sand bed and to a lesser extend on the glass as well. ReefTopia has a side bar on many of thier critters pointing out there habits and uses and what not.

 

[kdwal]

Angelscrx - Wow, what an interesting web site (GARF). Packed full of information, I just spent over an hour cruising it and yes, I did place an order with them. Prices seem very reasonable. Thanks for the info...

 

[Angelscrx]

Angelscrx - Wow, what an interesting web site (GARF). Packed full of information, I just spent over an hour cruising it and yes, I did place an order with them. Prices seem very reasonable. Thanks for the info...

I love them. They are very informational and they truly believe in taking as littel from the ocean by growing your own. I want to get some of their coral packages so we can frag locally. I am glad you liked them.

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

I know what you mean about GARF. They have been a big influence for me. If I could only count the hours I have spent on that site soaking up info. What I like best is that they are pretty much old school when it comes to reef keeping. They stick with the basics and squeeze the most out of it, supoort biology before technology, not really much trick of the week stuff there. Leroy, Lionel and scott has really helped me out a lot. I do like to use them when I can and they do get a considerable amount of buisness from me. Their product list has been growing too over the last couple of years. That algae pack looks pretty decent, thier mangroves are the best, and that reef glue gel is the bomb! There site is a bit confusing to navagate but if you got the time do skim over things and dont forget the archives either as there is some really good stuff there! Do let us know what you think about your newly arrived order when it gets in.

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

Angelscrx

Thats exactly how I got my first corals. Those frags are really small if you have not ordered them but considering how cheap they are you just cant beat them. Its perfect for setting up a nano!!! You get some nice things too. If you dont have a membership with them you might want to consider it. They have a number of corals that they sell through this means to members exclusively that arent advertised to the general public and some of those frags while expensive(for the size) are real eye poppers! They are really hardy and grow quickly as well.

 

[Angelscrx]

Angelscrx

Thats exactly how I got my first corals. Those frags are really small if you have not ordered them but considering how cheap they are you just cant beat them. Its perfect for setting up a nano!!! You get some nice things too. If you dont have a membership with them you might want to consider it. They have a number of corals that they sell through this means to members exclusively that arent advertised to the general public and some of those frags while expensive(for the size) are real eye poppers! They are really hardy and grow quickly as well.

The membership is something I forgot about but I will revisit it. I expected the frags to be small but its the types of frags that I am looking at. They get stuff most people can't. And in a local community where everyone frags pretty soon you could have a lot of similar looking tanks.

They are target problem specific. They identify the problem then give a solution. They're also great for new reefers and starter tanks. Their grunge is a great starter for any tank. It has coralline algae, pods, and beneficial bacteria. I had 2 lbs in my 29 gallon and I saw an almost instant change in my tank.

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

Oh dont you know it (I hear a lot of people bash their Grunge as beeing too expensive and over rated)! I couldnt imagine a tank with out a couple of pounds to give things a booster shot in the arm. That Grunge Lite is awesome in a refugium too!!! They do have some neat species and morphs of corals, and I can relate to what you mean about everyones tank having the same corals in them in the locale. They are good about giving a nice variety color, type and texture wise. I used one coral frag pack just for my little 24 gallon nano.

Guess I better quit before I hi-jack the thread!

 

[kdwal]

Ritsuko, is that glue really that good? It does seem a bit expensive, but if it works maybe it is worth it. I have had some difficulty glueing underwater. I liked that they did a glue comparison, so I know what not to get too!
For the quantity of frags you get with their package does not seem so bad. LFS I use grows his own frags in the back and he took me back to look the other day, I was awe struck by the variety and numbers but I'm telling you, for those really small guys, he is asking a pretty price for individuals! Some are very rare but all are beauties, and if the frags that GARF sends will actually grow up to look like the pics on their site, I say, not a bad deal.
Let me know about the glue and what is so different from the store bought.
thanks......

 

[kdwal]

I'm going to do another water change today, and use a smaller hose to suck out more of the red slime. Has anyone tried using oxygen tubing for this? I have plenty of tubing around the house and thought I might be able to get into the smaller areas and target the surface slime. From everything I have read, I will try to go this route before I try treating the tank with Chemi-Clean again. Tank looks much better after I suck that stuff out, but it starts multiplying again very quickly. Should I go so far as to remove the live rock to get in all the crevises or just get what I can see?

 

[Ritsuko Nashida]

In my Humble Opinion....That glue is the BOMB! I am sure there is something comparable out there and posibly cheaper but that glue just rocks! Here is why I like it so much...

Its in a gel format which is great when glueing corals and it runs all over the place so much less that standard super glue. Less mess and less product used! Probably the best thing about it is that it sets up very slowly...until it gets wet, then it gets solid real fast. This means no more frags that I thought were ready to go back to the tank are floating around the tank an hour later! I like it so much I absolutely will not be caught without a tube of it. In fact I have been talking to them about offering it in a 4-6 ounce size for us coral freaks out there. I am so sure that I geta couple of tubes from the evertime I order through them. Yes it is a little pricey, but its a price I am more than willing to pay! You milage may vary though, just my two cents.

You will get some nice stuff from GARF if you get one of thier Coral Packs. And if you wait until they have the 10 or 12 for 100.00 then its a steal anyway you slice it. I promise you will get a couple that you will really like and the rest aint half bad either. My fist purchase through them was 10 pack SPS corals and about 6 of them were awesome. The other 4 were nothing to knock by any means! Yes they will grow quiet nicely and with the right attention and care will look just as fantastic as they do in the pics. Dont kid yourself thopugh it takes time to create a tank as mind blowing as theirs. The pics they are showing you are from tanks that are on average 4-7 year old tanks. I still have most of those corals and they all are looking nice and several have been fragged and shared with others. The really choice stuff is available to members only and can be about as pricey as anywhere else on line but they do have some wild color morphs available at times. They are small frags though so you have been warned. I do get a few this way from time to time though. They are hardy and they do grow well!

I wouldnt move the rock too much unless you really need to. But do siphon as much as possible. Stick with it and you will pull through, it just takes some time. If you start to get over ran by it though I would use the Chemi-Clean in a effort to not lose corals and what not. Its a Temp fix but will buy you some time.

Good luck, and keep us posted.