How much rock? And algae help.

[boosted306]

What is a general rule of thumb for live rock in a reef tank? Currently I have reduced my aquarium size greatly. I am down to a 29T. I have read and heard that 1/2, 1, or 2 pounds of LR is the standard per gallon. Well, guys and gals what is it?

I am going from a FOWLR setup to a reef so the more information the better.

Also, need to know for my 2.5 gallon pico. I think with that the more the better for stability.

I also have a terrible algae problem growing on the glass and rocks. The algae on the glass seems to be your normal green and purple. The rocks on the other hand are wearing a sweater of green algae. This stuff is thick. I do weekly water changes and parameters are great. I am figuring that is why it is growing so quickly. This evening I pulled all of my rock out of the tank and took a toothbrush to it. This has worked well but for just a short time I'm sure. I also bought some cleaner hermits and a cleaner crab(RIP) that didn't make it home. If anyone has advice on any better ways to correct this please chime in.

 

[lizardarm]

I do weekly water changes and parameters are great

What are your parameters? What all are you testing for?
Hermit crabs won't typically do much for algae growing on the rocks (as far as eating the algae).
One to one and a half pounds per gallon is plenty. There are fish out there that can do a good job cleaning algae off of rocks, but you really need to get water quality under control before dumping fish in, and twenty nine gallons isn't big enough for the tangs or angels that I'm thinking of anyway.
Out of curiosity, what type of flow do you have in your tank now?

Also, need to know for my 2.5 gallon pico. I think with that the more the better for stability

That's a 2.5 gallon torture chamber for all but the meekest of marine critters; it's just too small, and displacing the already too small of water volume with LR doesn't sound sound.

 

[Scooterman]

The amount of rock used has a lot to do with what equipment you have, the bio-load & several other things to make sure your tank can process Detritus properly. So that question can be difficult to answer without lots of information. The basic rule of 1 1/2 to 2 pounds per gallon is a good starter but things like skimming, refuge. or anything else used to help can reduce the amount of rock needed!

 

[Krish]

The basic rule of 1 1/2 to 2 pounds per gallon is a good starter but things like skimming, refuge. or anything else used to help can reduce the amount of rock needed!

Also, to add what Scooty said, how porous your rocks are makes a difference as well. Some rocks of the same size will provide more biological filtration than the other depending on how porous it is.

I do weekly water changes and parameters are great. I am figuring that is why it is growing so quickly.

Algae basically won't grow where the water is perfect The fact that you are having algae issues means that there is a food source in your tank fueling the algae to grow and your water parameters/test results may show differently just for the simple fact that the algae has it bound up in it using it to grow (nitrate levels for eg). You can manually remove the algae to export the bound up nitrates, phosphates etc, but if you don't get to the source of the problem as to where the excess nutrients are coming from, then it will just continue to grow back. Just a few thoughts...

 

[boosted306]

Parameters:
PH = 8.3
Salinity = 1.24
Ammonia = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = 0
Calcium = 320ish
Temperature = 79

 

[boosted306]

I will do more today. Phosphate I am assuming?

Also my tank circulation is as follows, Eheim 2217 with Hydor Koralia #3 power head. 2 more #3's are going in this week.

 

[Krish]

Yeah, it's usually either phosphates or nitrates (or the 2). In your case though, it would be hard to tell if it is infact nitrates because like I mentioned, if the algae has it bound up and using it for its growth, your test results will probably come back 0.

 

[burning2nd]

i like the 2ish pounds per gallon... even tho i didnt know that when i built this tank years back.. the next one will be 2lbs per gal...

 

[boosted306]

Yeah, it's usually either phosphates or nitrates (or the 2). In your case though, it would be hard to tell if it is infact nitrates because like I mentioned, if the algae has it bound up and using it for its growth, your test results will probably come back 0.

I scraped all of the algae off of the rocks, I mean every single little bit that I could find. Well, guys and gals guess what, my nitrates went crazy. So I cleaned my canister filter of all that went in there and caught as much of the loose material with a net/screen. Afterwards I did a huge water change (6 gallons). I am hoping that this will take care of the problem. If I see this coming back what do I need to do?

 

[Krish]

What do you have in your canister filter?? One thing that helps to keep nitrate and phosphate levels down is to keep all sponges, filter socks etc for starters clean or changed out regularily (like ever 2-3 days). It's amazing how quickly trapped waste can degrade water quality. Sucks, I never even ran any pre-filter sponges on any of my pumps for this same reason. Also, are you using any bio-weels in your setup or bio-balls or similar?? Let us know...You may possibly just have to let it ride itself out and allow the tank time to mature and balance out a bit. It would be during this time you wouldn't want over feed the tank, add any new inhabitants etc...Just let things run it's course and balance itsel out. You could use the algae in your tank to do all the work for you by binding up all of the excess nutrients and then just export it by trimming it back (basically the same way a refugium works). I've seen tanks here that look like the amazon and after a while just by pruning the algae back and letting things run it's course, they made a huge turn around. I'll see if I can fetch you an exanple real quick.

 

[Krish]

Take a look at post#70 here http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14857&page=5
Also, look at Post# 85 (where it started) and post#96 (where it really took off)http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2884&page=7

 

[boosted306]

Thanks Krish! I looked at those pictures and wow!

 

[warforged]

Also keep in consideration a few things. First Phosphates are fertilizer for algae...so most likely you have it. test please.

Also your nitrate readings may say 0 but that is because all that algae is eating it. It more than likely is higher than you think. So you are most likely getting a false reading on your nitrates.

Also... Did you start this tank properly? Using Ro/DI salt mixed water or Tap? Tap is a big no no when it comes to water parameters...you just add what you are trying to keep out.

Good luck..

PS. If you do use Phosban it impacts PH...so have a buffer on hand.

PSS> Something else to consider is maybe getting a 10 gallon sump under the stand... for more water volume and fill it with some live rock. It'll help in many ways. Hide equipment... more water volume. More live rock. all good things.

 

[burning2nd]

Ill follow up on the Flow detail... you be suprised how much more flow your tank can really handle... most things (in your tank) will figure out a way to move if they dont like the spot that are at...

also alternating flow.. i dont mean a wavemaker just moveing your power heads from time to time a little but stirr's things up.

your No3 and po4 arent come up on the test kits cause the algae is eating it at the rate it is available.

what ya gotta do.. (unless dealing with byropsis) is water change (suck it out/manual removal) another water change sit.... wait a day or 2 (how ever your system likes) then repeat...

the nutrients your trying 2 remove are in the algae you see..... that kindda makes it eazyer to get at...

when you get the levels low... you will see what ever algae, remains lighting in color.. (or bleach) that means your starveing the aglae's food source... when that happens yu will test and see that your somewhere betweem .5-10

(at least in my experience)

once you have the algae, on the retreat... thats when it gets hard. because your gonna be at the stage where you have to balance water changes 2 feeding habits

after that all happens (and this can take weeks or months) you will have a much better understanding of your tank.



and dido on the sump... you ill find that you have a little more leeway on what you can do with your tank with that extra space... but i strongly reject the idea of adding rock or anything that can restrict detritus from building up... no sponges no rock no nothing except some cheto perhaps and your skimmer....

in my sump i have a little mangrove tree growing.. (cant wait to let him grow) but i get a good deal of detritus in my return side... that i suck out from time to time....

it settles under my pump... my next system will have a bottem fed external pump.

 

[warforged]

Canister filters are just not good … sure they are great on mechanical filtering and even some bio filtering. The problem is that “crud” builds up in them and it becomes a “nitrate factory”.

Personally a small tank like that with Live rock and weekly 10-15% water change wouldn’t be costly and do fine.

My 29g bio cube did very well with live rock and a 5g weekly water change. The only problem I had was coralline algae grew like crazy on the glass and backwall

Question: What is the source of your algae problem to begin with?
I have learned a few things in algae battles.
1. Photo periods being too long. 8+ hours

2. Introduction of phosphates to your system.
A. from tap water top off
B. feeding too much frozen foods (over feeding plus they have phosphates to ..double edge here nitrate and phosphate build up)

3. PC bulbs after 6months can lose there spectrum and promote algae growth, Halides about a year.

4. Your tank sitting by a window.. (those in sunny states =p ) washingtonians do not apply we dont get sun ever.

PS. If plumbing a sump is just not an option... have you considered buying a Phosphate reactor? I highly recommend this product to kick that phosphate in the face =). Just remember to use a PH buffer and watch PH for the first few weeks when you fire up new phosban.

 

[boosted306]

I am wanting to get a sump and I probably will. The only down side for me anyway is doing it. I would want to drill the tank and set it up properly. I have seen different ways of doing an overflow with Home Depot PVC and glue but do not like the look. I have also seen prebuilt overflow boxes but am in the same boat, I am not a fan. Perhaps it is because I have not yet tried an overflow box but it seems to me that it would be bulky in such a small tank.

I am not disagreeing at all by the way. I agree that a sump is without a doubt the way to go. I will get there eventually and hopefully sooner than later. I am considering the purchase of a reef ready 29T soon. The purchase all depends on "craigslist.'' I would most likely do a DIY 20G sump.

 

[Krish]

Look into the CPR overflows if you want something that doesn't take up much space in the tank. Also, if you get creative, you can hide it even better. Take a look here at one of my old threads http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12686 You should only need to browse through the pictures on the first 2 pages to see what I did to hide my overflow. HTH's