ICH is back

[seattlereef]

So awhile ago I had an ich outbreak in my DT. I did a hypo treatment in my hospital tank for 9 weeks and then put everyone back in. At the same time I had a quarantine tank that I did a 9 week quarantine in and then added everyone into the DT. After a week everything seemed good so I got rid of the quarantine tank because of space issues. About a month afterwards the ich came back. I decided to try and see if they would develop an immunity and for a couple of months it held static. However in the last couple of days it appears to be getting worse.

In addition I'm having some problems with bubble algae and aiptasia.

I don't have that many inverts or corals so I'm considering moving the inverts and corals into my hospital tank. Then pulling the rock and sand out of the DT and performing a hypo treatment on my DT. Throwing out the substrate and then "cooking" my Live rock to get rid of the bubble algae and the aiptasia.

Does anyone see any problems with this?

My main benefit for keeping the fish in the DT is I have some tangs and they will have much more room. In addition my DT has a skimmer, Carbon, GFO reactors and my hospital tank has a simple HOB filter. If I have to move the fish out I'll need to buy another HT to have enough room to hold all the fish. I'll put some PVC pipe fittings in to give them places to hide.

Finally given that the fallow period didn't really work the first time I'm hoping that cooking the rock and starting with fresh substrate will allow me to get it under control.

Thoughts other suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Using the big tank while bare for hypo wouldn't be a problem. Keep in mind, the invert tank woould need to stay fallow for three months and anything wet can carry the disease. The only reason the hypo could have failed is if salinity wasn't low enough as in bad refractomoter, or other contramination. If the Ich is without fish for three months, the cycles starves to death

 

[seattlereef]

Thanks for the feedback. Do you think that I should leave my cheato in the sump or should I pull that out to?

 

[ReefGeeker]

I've had luck with Mardel Ick Attack, natural ingredients and invert and coral safe. I also soaked my food in garlic. This was a few years ago shortly I had just setup my first saltwater tank. I still have the same CBS, turbo snail, and clownfish and corals from that same tank.

 

[SeaLion]

Marine Ich is an opportunistic parasite.

It only gains a foot hold and becomes symptomatic when conditions are right, basically stress of some kind. Stress from water quality issues, aggression, over crowding. Sounds like you have already beat it once and probably know this.

There are only 3 scientific proven treatments: But never used on conjunction.
Copper.
Hyposalinity.
Formalin.

Unless you plan on QTing absolutely every wet frag, or members of the CUC and any and all introductions for the life of the tank then it seems extreme to me to remove sand and cook rock.

Tangs are always going to be the first to become symptomatic. Stress reduction and enhancement of diet in my opinion are the only realistic means of dealing with it, unless you observe the strictest of QT from here on out.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

The Mardel is a quack product not based on science.

Sea Lion, he is removing the sand and rock for a diffent reason, wants to re-cook them top cure of algae.
Basicaly wants to hypo in a big tank for his tangs.


The sump needs to be fallow or emptied too.

 

[seattlereef]

Thanks for the advice. I'll move everything over tomorrow since I had to work late tonight. Anyone have any advice on the best way to get sand out of the bottom?

 

[IPisces]

I've used a fine mesh net to pull sand out.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Thanks for the advice. I'll move everything over tomorrow since I had to work late tonight. Anyone have any advice on the best way to get sand out of the bottom?

Siphon with large diameter hose into buckets. You will need some fresh saltwater to start with anyway

 

[Gazbo]

I would be more interested in why its happening, If the fish seemed fine until you placed them back in the DT then I would think if you tore everything apart cured everything and put things back it could return again unless you figure out why- wether it is your water quality or something else I would guess its your water quality if your having a problem with bubble algae. I am curious what your water parameters are ammonia, phosphate, nitrates etc... That way you can may find out what the cause is before taking everything apart so when your back up running again you know what you need to change when back up running again. If its over feeding, bio load to heavy, poor water being used for water changes/top offs

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Ich can be compared to lice or crabs with humans. It is a specific parasitic species with specific life parameters. It lives, changes, and dies. It is not a symptom, though weakened fish are more susceptible to having the parasite take over. The reason it "came back" is it never left the house, or was brought back in.

I would be more interested in why its happening, If the fish seemed fine until you placed them back in the DT then I would think if you tore everything apart cured everything and put things back it could return again unless you figure out why- wether it is your water quality or something else I would guess its your water quality if your having a problem with bubble algae. I am curious what your water parameters are ammonia, phosphate, nitrates etc... That way you can may find out what the cause is before taking everything apart so when your back up running again you know what you need to change when back up running again. If its over feeding, bio load to heavy, poor water being used for water changes/top offs

 

[Gazbo]

I am aware that it stays in the water for a period of time. It just seems if everything was cured and ok for a month then everything came back tells me that something is affecting the fish, either lowering thier immune system or stressing them out. IME I would have a hippo tang or flame angle come down with ich when first introduced or moving the tank but will cure itself over time with increase feedings with garlic added and none of the other fish will come down with any signs. I would say yes there is no issue if only one or two fish came down with it but if all fish are affected I would think there is something causing it but I am a noob when it comes to these things.

 

[james734]

Ich is a parasite plan a simple. No fish is immune to it, just some fish are better at fighting it off. Either way once it's in the tank it will be in the tank forever unless it sits fallow for a min of 6 weeks with no fish in.

In reading this it sounds like the correct course of action was taken the first time around and it should be gone but something had to be introduced back into the system that had it. Only way to get it back into the system. I cannot find the link but there's been plenty of research on the life cycle of marine ich. Which does a good job of explaining the various stages of it's cycle.

At this point in time something that was wet was put in the tank that carried it.

All the witch craft of feeding fish garlic, though a boost to the immune system might help them fight off getting completely infected, doesn't remove it from the tank which is the end goal.

Any thing wet put into our tanks can carry the parasite at any point in it's life cycle.

 

[james734]

One more thing. At the point you can see it on the fish the life cycle has already begun. They reproduce and the cycle continues. So the fact you might not see anything on a fish for a few weeks doesn't mean the tank is it not infected, just means the baby's haven't frown to adulthood yet.

 

[Gazbo]

One more thing. At the point you can see it on the fish the life cycle has already begun. They reproduce and the cycle continues. So the fact you might not see anything on a fish for a few weeks doesn't mean the tank is it not infected, just means the baby's haven't frown to adulthood yet.

I know once you have Ich in your tank that most likely it will always be there until you do something to eliminate it. I know some fish are more a susceptible in contracting ich. I am just saying that I would have 1 fish with ich out of 10+ fish and not have a full outbreak so one may make the conlcusion that there might be more to it, again there are probably different kinds of ICH that may be stronger I just know before I do a full tare down and cure of my DT I would want to eleminate water quality, over feeding, over crowding, or anything else that may cause stress or immune issues with fish to make sure it doesn't repeat itself again, do a full water test and test my make up water to make sure it is pure. Maybe the fish in the tank are all prone to ICH. that is just my opinion and maybe I have been lucky to not have a full outbreak for no reason.

 

[ReefGeeker]

I meant to say Kordon ich attack... Had one fish I bought had a few spots and bought the stuff... Oops anyways it never came back...

 

[seattlereef]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I didn't end up getting to work on the tank till tonight. My daugher caught the flu, and then I did, and then my wife did...

Fortunatly I think I found the cause for the bloom of ich in my tank. My UV bulb had burned out and I hadn't noticed it. Probally happened within the week. I realize the UV couldn't elimnate the ich but I have a feeling it help keep in check.

Anyhow tonight I moved all my coral, some of my LR that has coral encrusted on it, snails, crabs and anemone into my QT tank. I removed all the LR from the DT. I still need to catch the cleaner shrimp but I'm too tired tonight. I've started lowering the salinity mostly from the rock removal and allowing my ATO to make up the difference. I also threw a bunch of PVC elbows etc for the fish to hide in.

I'm now thinking I"m just going to leave the sand. Getting it all out seems like a serious pain. I'm just concered about possible die off due to the hypo.

After all that I'm going to go "kill" off my live rock and then cooking it. Does letting the rock dry out for a week and then rinsing off and then putting it in a Brute to cook it sound good enough or do I need to be more aggresive?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Looks like you are doing great. Just siphon out the sand with a piece of vinyl or garden hose.
The die off will be a souse of non-stop pollution and in a hypo tank, keeping pollution down is the biggest battle. During this process, pH balanced salt water change is vital.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Ich is a parasite plan a simple. No fish is immune to it, just some fish are better at fighting it off.

Fish can actually develop an immunity to Ich after an initial non-lethal exposure or vaccination. This sometimes means they do not become infested during challenges, while other times it means they do not die as surely as those without immunity.

Consider vitamin C directly to the water to build up their general immunity (not immunity to Ich, just general health) while they are fighting this. Vitamin C has been proven to improve both passive and active immunity response. The vitamin C will be absorbed directly into their system through the vessels in their gills. They have whole books dedicated to vitamin C and it's positive effects on fish.