Ich: it has finally happened to me :-(

[Recife]

My blue tang and flame angel got ich. I've read a lot of great posts here about treatment options and I have a few questions:
1. The fish are acting healthy. Is there any chance adding garlic and one of those so called reef safe products will work?

2. I don't have a QT tank. Could I possibly use a 10gal bucket as a treatment tank with hyposalinity? Will that traumatize the fish? 4 weeks is a very long time and I want to do it the right away.

3. if I go for the QT option, can I leave the fish that haven't been infected in the tank? They are percs and chromis.

 

[NaH2O]

Garlic or other reef-safe products will not be a cure for Cryptocaryon irritans. I suppose if the fish was small enough for a 10 gallon bucket, it might not be so bad, provided the water quality was maintained. One big problem I see with using a bucket, is the ability to view the fish (like you can in a tank). This is important, IMO, as you will need to know when the last day you saw an Ich spot, which will allow for proper treatment length. If you do go the QT hyposalinity option, all fish will need treatment, and the display tank fallow (fishless) to completely eliminate the parasite. I suppose you could only treat the infected fish, but as soon as they go back into the display, they will likely become infected some other time, as the parasite will not be eliminated. I recently purchased a 29 gallon relatively cheap at Meijer (kind of like a super Walmart but they're here in the midwest) for my daughter's tank upgrade. It might be worth investigating a cheap QT tank, or see if anyone in your local club is getting rid of a smaller glass tank you can use as a QT. You can eliminate ich once and for all. Don't forget a refractometer if you choose the hyposalinity route.

Let us know what you decide to do!

 

[james734]

You need a QT tank. Might want to head down to petsmart or the like and pick up a 10g tropical aquarium kit. it will come with heater, HOB filter, Light, etc for around $50.00+/-.

 

[Recife]

Thanks guys. My main problem with the QT tank route is space. I live in a condo and didn't really want to go down that route, but if it has to be done, it has to be done. I'll check petco and petsmart to get some cheap small tank

OK, so what are the recommended steps once I have the low salinity and ph right in the QT tank? I presume I shouldn't go for the copper treatment as the flame angel is sensitive to it, right?

My poor babies...

 

[james734]

Don't lower the salinity in the QT until after you have the fish in there. Then start to drop the salinity.

Here's what I would do...
Get the QT all setup and fill it with water out of the main. Move the fish over then start dropping salinity. you can drop it pretty fast. IE: over a 24hr or 48hr period should be okay. Keep it there for the duration 2-4 weeks after the last visible spots. Then slowly raise the salinity back up. Take your time when raising the salinity it should take you about week to get back up to 1.023-1.025.

Don't forget you will need a refactometer to monitor the salinity. Those swing guages are not accurate enough IMO for use with hypo.

How many fish do you have? What type of fish beside the BT and Flame Angel?

 

[steve-s]

OK, so what are the recommended steps once I have the low salinity and ph right in the QT tank? I presume I shouldn't go for the copper treatment as the flame angel is sensitive to it, right?

If your choosing to use hyposalinity, you don't need any other treatment for the parasite problem. The only exception being secondary infection. It's not a given that will occur but definitely be mindful of it. Definitely do not combine hypo and copper.

Once the salinity has been reduced to 14 ppt, watch the fish for signs of when they no longer have re-occurring trophonts (spots). Then you begin the countdown of 4 weeks at the 14 ppt level. It is very important to watch the pH and alkalinity levels during the salinity drop and throughout the treatment. Test and buffer the RO water (as needed) for the salinity reduction. Throughout the treatment term, check salinity and pH at least twice daily. The salinity should never get close to 16 ppt and the pH stays above or as close to 8.2 as possible. Check ammonia daily, 2x daily in the beginning and do the necessary water changes needed.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

Cheers
Steve

 

[Brenden]

Steve-s beat me to it but make sure you watch/buffer the PH. Most do not and it leads to more problems. Also check out poly filters. They come in handy in a QT

 

[Recife]

Thanks everyone. As usual, RF being a quick realiable source of info. Hopefully the fish will recover.
Am I likely to need a ph buffer? I never ever added any buffer to my display tank, the parameters are always perfect. But I don't think a small quarantine tank will give me the same luck.

 

[Brenden]

You will need a buffer. Reason being...Salt mix buffers your water. When you lower the salinity you also lower the natural buffering capacity of the water.

 

[Recife]

I've been doing everything according to the script. Fish in quarantine, recovering well. I managed to take out of the display tank all fish, except for one stubborn blue chromis. There's no force on earth or heaven that will help me fish him out. I've tried EVERYTHING.

So my question is: he looks healthy. No ich spots. Is it possible for the display tank to clear the infection with this one fish there? I'm in no rush to put fish back in, but I'm just starting to face the fact I won't be able to get this guy out for a while.

 

[steve-s]

I would suggest you not give up on trying to remove the Chromis. Any fish that remains no matter the species or their "visible" appearance is a potential food source for the parasite to continue on. Even if that's at a minimal rate, it only takes one to keep the cycle going.

If you can't remove the Chromis, there is a very good chance you will have problems once the QT'd fish are eventually returned. Only by fallowing the tank will you have any assurance it's dealt with from here on in.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Recife]

Oh dear... :-(

So maybe I should put a new post: "how to catch a chromis". Any advice?

 

[steve-s]

Actually I find they are very easy to catch at night. They will usually "sleep" in the same spot each night. If it's fairly accessible, you should have an easier time. If not, re arrange the area during the day which will force the chromis to find a new place that will hopefully be more convenient for you.

They have very poor eye sight at night and are rather easy to sneak up on from behind. If you have a Kent scraper or something similar, you can nudge the little guy out in the open and then scoop it up. I've never had a problem removing them as long as it's not head on.

Cheers
Steve

 

[curro18]

Hello All, this is my first post although I have been a lurker (as Kevinpo calls me) for a few months now. I have a little over two years of experience in the hobby, not much compared to many folks on RF. I first experienced Ich in my second tank that was set up in February of this year. My yellow tang and coral beauty both had ich pretty bad. I searched and searched for different treatment options and couldn't decide on one. I went into Aquatic Dreams and talked to Kevin about what he does to treat Ich in his tanks at the store. He said "nothing", so I said okay. He recommended I buy a couple of cleaner shrimps. I am not saying the cleaner shrimps solved my Ich problem, but I believe they helped relieve the stress levels of the fish. I kept my water parameters as stable as possible and within a few weeks, the fish no longer showed signs of Ich. This may or may not work for you. I am sure it all depends on how far along the Ich has progressed. My fish had spots all over, but were not showing any other signs such as rapid breathing, lack of appetite, etc. I have since added a couple of other fish to the tank and still haven't had a reoccurence. Anyone else have success with this?

 

[liveforphysics]

Yes, I place ich covered fish I rescue from people into my tanks. I just keep them well fed, and in a week or two, no signs of ich on anybody. So, I supose that would be about the same as doing nothing and having ich dissapear.

 

[curro18]

Cool, glad i'm not the only one. I think that sometimes we tend to overreact in this hobby, which in turn leads to more harm than good.

 

[Recife]

That didn't work for me. I was feeding the fish well, adding garlic extract to the food, but my blue tang got really badly infected and started to rub against the rocks and was completely bruised until it died.

 

[curro18]

Sorry to hear that. I guess it all depends on how far along they are, how hardy the fish is, etc. Tangs are all well known for being Ich magnets, but the Yellow Tangs are probably some of the hardiest. I love some of the other Tangs, but am afraid to try keeping them.

 

[steve-s]

Biological controls are a very poor choice and rather hit and miss. They do not actually affect a cure either. What you generally end up with is the symptoms being eliminated, not the parasite itself. It is possible for fish and parasite to live in an odd sort of balance but it is less than ideal and usually short lived. Truth be told, most "miracle cures" are really misdiagnosis.

Cheers
Steve

 

[-=dieseldave=-]

Truth be told, most "miracle cures" are really misdiagnosis.

Bingo!
Thank you,
David