Is Live Sand Really Live?

[Krish]

I was curious of the thoughts people had on live sand you buy in a bag like Caribsea Arogonite, Fiji Pink etc. that is said to contain benefical bacteria? It is said that it helps in cycling a newly set up tank, by providing it with these same strains of beneficial bacteria that aren't present in a brand new tank. I always belived that these bags contained the beneficial bacteria (as stated on the package and thus the reason the bags were packed and sealed with water in it) until it was brought to my attention (talking to a buddy of mine via pm last night) that this was not so and just a marketing scheme etc. Any thoughts on the subject??

Here's something I copied and pasted that I found on a website regarding Caribsea Aragalive. Are people paying high bucks for sand that is nothing more than something you can go to a childrens playground and get or does it actually contain beneficial bacteria

CaribSea Arag-Alive!â„¢

CaribSea has seven carefully selected Live Sand products to help you create the authentic aquatic environment of your choice. Arag-Alive!™ natural aragonite substrates are engineered for different performance characteristics, and each with it’s own unique look. All Arag-Alive!™ products help maintain the pH of natural seawater.

Only CaribSea’s Arag-Alive!™

Live Sands contains not just the broad spectrum of natural marine bacteria found in the ocean, but additional specially selected strains of marine bacteria as well. Arag-Alive!â„¢ compresses new tank cycle time and suppresses the initial ammonia spike. Arag-Alive!â„¢ creates a natural biological balance, and makes cycling a new aquarium faster and safer. Live rocks and most invertebrates can be added immediately. Gradually introduce fish within the first 3 weeks, and do not exceed one inch of fish per 5 gallons during this time.

How Does Arag-Alive Work?

Arag-Alive!™ achieves rapid cycling by preparing and seeding the substrate grain surfaces with a wide variety of marine bacteria, most in a spored state, including strains engineered for maximum waste reduction capacity. Some types of bacteria reduce nitrogenous waste by metabolic oxidation while others incorporate nitrogen into bacterial biomass during rapid growth. Since most species of bacteria are somewhat symbiotic, and tend to colonize a surface in succession, the process of “cycling” an aquarium is facilitated by the close proximity of the immobilized species. Bacteria are maintained at a low metabolic rate by restricting access to certain limiting factors required for metabolism. The Eco Complete™ freshwater products work in the same way, just with freshwater bacteria.

 

[steve-s]

"Bacterial" sand is of no benefit and not worth the cost. If you want to do something beneficial for a tank, add fauna/bugs, not bacteria. Bacteria will grow on it's own from just about any seeding source. Animal diversity needs to be introduced, the bacteria does not.

For those that use the argument "it speeds things up", the obvious answer is, What's your hurry!?!

Cheers
Steve

 

[ronj]

Steve, i am going to send some xanax your way.. you seem to have gotten worked up there.....rofl...j/k

 

[Krish]

ROFL! I add none. Sand is for making sand castles BB all the way! I was just curious on peoples views. Why would someone spend the extra money for "live sand" when it has no benefit when they can buy the cheap stuff from Home Depot? I think knowing this will save a lot of people some money if they knew this

 

[ronj]

i still haven't decided whether or not to use sand in my 125g

 

[Krish]

i still haven't decided whether or not to use sand in my 125g

That depends on you...A lot of people hate using it and some won't set up a tank without it. I'd never try and persuade someone to go either way. They both have their "ups and downs" For me personally, I've found it is easier to keep a cleaner tank bare bottom, but that's just me

 

[ronj]

thats what i am debating.. i like the look of the sand, but i want a cleaner tank....maybe i should buy a 240g and do one w/ sand and one w/out sand....lol

 

[Krish]

LOL! That'll work!

 

[spongebob lover]

i think live sand should be called when the sand has worms, snails and what not in there ... otherwise i think it's just a waste, but that's just me.

 

[Krish]

LOL...I just think it sucks that they'd call the stuff "live sand" and make newbies think that will get them going when infact it really does nothing for them! I always hear here, "Oh, that bag is no good because there's a hole and the water leaked out!" Or, "Make sure you don't rinse the sand, but throw everything directly in the tank because you will lose the beneficial bacteria!"

 

[Scooterman]

"Bacterial" sand is of no benefit and not worth the cost. If you want to do something beneficial for a tank, add fauna/bugs, not bacteria. Bacteria will grow on it's own from just about any seeding source. Animal diversity needs to be introduced, the bacteria does not.

For those that use the argument "it speeds things up", the obvious answer is, What's your hurry!?!

Cheers
Steve

Depends on your goals, the bacteria it comes with will seed a DSB with bacteria that is found on that particle sand size, it increases diversity by supplying bacteria of different types not found on LR. Now with that said all you need is a cup or two LOL so yea for the price is isn't worth it unless you doing a DSB & want to seed your sand. Is it required no, i agree, more so with a thin sb with LR.

 

[Krish]

Thanks for your input Scooter! I know sand doesn't apply to you and me but it does to others and it is always good to know these things

 

[spongebob lover]

Thanks for your input Scooter! I know sand doesn't apply to you and me but it does to others and it is always good to know these things

I agree.... me loves me sand

 

[MikeS]

"live sand" may aid a little bit in speeding up the initial establishment of bacteria in a new tank, but IMO is not even close to worth the extra cost compared to dry sand. Your substrate, base rock, ect will quickly populate themselves with bacteria anyway.

MikeS

 

[Brenden]

For the people that claim it does have bacteria. I have a few questions. What feeds the bacteria to keep it alive until you put it in your tank? It must be some kind of superman bacteria to withstand the temp, moisture, and other enviromental changed it goes through. No way bacteria can live in a bag like that. IMO buy the cheap aragnite sand from HD or wherever you can find it and seed it with some aquacultured LR shipped overnight. Since the rock will be gathered from the ocean floor it should have any type diversity you could want. As Steve-S said what is the hurry? That should be a sign thatyou may be in the wrong hobby.

 

[Scooterman]

For the people that claim it does have bacteria. I have a few questions. What feeds the bacteria to keep it alive until you put it in your tank? It must be some kind of superman sand to withstand the temp, moisture, and other enviromental changed it goes through. No way bacteria can live in a bag like that. IMO buy the cheap aragnite sand from HD or wherever you can find it and seed it with some aquacultured LR shipped overnight. Since the rock will be gathered from the ocean floor it should have any type diversity you could want. As Steve-S said what is the hurry? That should be a sign thatyou may be in the wrong hobby.

go get a microscope & take a look at one of their products, then you will be qualified to make that statement. The diversity of bacteria living on the different size sand particles isn't nearly the same as in LR, if you would read all to the actual testing Dr. Ron did & proved you would know this. I do agree that you only need a cup or two to seed a nice Sb & there isn't any hurry, so in that yes it is too expensive, also you can seed a Sb with Lr & do fine but when people want a DSB for it to properly function you need to be a little more diverse.

 

[steve-s]

Scoot,

Which artcile did Shimek write concerning retail live sand like this and what bacterial strains are found in retail bagged sand that connot be found on LR?

Cheers
Steve

 

[Scooterman]

I never said anything about him writing up on retail live sand but he did mention it as containing some of the required diversity. His articles have been removed so I can't access this documentation, his site was removed or closed. Regardless, his studies show that bacteria & fauna living on different size particles of sand & silt which southouthdown can't reproduce. So really to seed a dsb you wold need something that will live on the finer particles of sand, which isn't necessary bacteria from lr.

 

[steve-s]

never said anything about him writing up on retail live sand but he did mention it as containing some of the required diversity.

That's the crux of it though isn't it, what is he (Shimek) saying is required? What specifically does the retail LS offer us as hobbyists that true LR will not?

Here's his site....
http://ronshimek.com/

his studies show that bacteria living on different size particles of sand & silt which southouthdown can't reproduce.

So I can assume any sand that is not Southdown and the appropriate grain sizes will work? If just grain sizes/silts, detritus shedding from true live rock will harbour the same bacteria, yes? If not, why not? Bacteria are quite capable of forming their own environments, why would this be any different?

If the conditions of the LS can be met in the LR (I see no reason why they wouldn't), there is no reason to assume the same bacteria is not present in the LR at least to some small degree. If the bacterial diversity is present even to that small degree, then my statement still holds true.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Scooterman]

Nope Steve your confusing my answer, the sand contains useful life, plain and simple, i agree lr contains it also, the question asked was is ls really live & I say it is.