JBJ 1/4 hp Chiller - refrigerant question

[mattseattle]

My chiller does not seem to be cooling like it used to. I flushed it out today and a ton of gunk came out of the heat exchanger so maybe that will help. I called JBJ to ask them about checking the refrigerant. The guy told me that their chillers were not made to be charged and/or checked. So I asked him if after the warranty period is up and you need to recharge the chiller what happens? He said that you throw it away and get a new one. I couldn't believe this as you can't just toss an 800.00 piece of equipment out if it leaks. Does anyone have experience with recharging/check refrigerant on a JBJ chiller?

I did run a test though on a 5 gallon bucket of water. I got it cooled from 90 degrees down to 37 degrees in about 45 - 50 minutes. Not sure if that is fast or not but at least it's cooling.

 

[bc_slc]

don't know the answer, but how did you flush it out?

mat

 

[mattseattle]

in the manual it says to reverse the in and out and that will flush it. i've been doing that constantly every few months for the past year. well today i got a flash light and looked down in there and i still saw quite a bit of gunk that wasn't coming out. so i got a turkey baster and injected water then tilted the chiller from side to side then turned it upside town. i know probably not the safest thing to do but it worked. all this crap came bellowing out. so i did that about 8 or 9 times till it came out clean. after that i ran it for about 2 hours with water and vinegar solution to clean the heat exchanger. it definitely looks cleaner in there....

 

[jsmkmavity]

the refrigerant doesnt "wear out" or just evaporate into thin air. if you are not getting the normal performance in any refrigeration equipment the first thing to do is clean the heat exchanger. you said you flushed it out and that is good, and that should help. i dont know the inside diameter or the length of tubing in the heat exchanger but if its not too long you could run a long brush thru it to help clean it. dont use too stiff of a brush because it can get stuckif you have to pull it back half way thru. iff too long for a brush you could try and slide a flexible rod with a small bit of rag thru it. if these are not options call the manufacturer and ask what kind of cleaners are safe to use to disolve build-up. i dont know what their heat exchangers are made of so i cant recommend anything in particular. if you can flush with water both ways with a strong pump i think you will be happy with the results for some time. if something did cause the refrigerant to leak they are telling you the truth about getting another one. too expensive to fix and usually the repairs dont last very long or dont even work at all!

 

[The Apprentice]

Reoes anyone have experience with recharging/check refrigerant on a JBJ chiller?

Hi Matt Just read your thread rest easy you can save your chiller. I have a PCI CL 450 was in the same situation. Now this is what you do find a appliance repair store ( some one who work on Refridges & or freezers ) What they do is cut the line and solder in a charging line "Tee" and I think the have to hook up one other "tee" as well I think the have to see pressures on the Hi side and the Low side, It cost me $ 45 to have this done including a R-22 freon charge in My neck of the desert . so hit the yellow pages for appliance repair..


Good luck.

P.S. I finnaly gave up and bought a new chiller

My chiller does not seem to be cooling like it used to. I flushed it out today and a ton of gunk came out of the heat exchanger so maybe that will help. I called JBJ to ask them about checking the refrigerant. The guy told me that their chillers were not made to be charged and/or checked. So I asked him if after the warranty period is up and you need to recharge the chiller what happens? He said that you throw it away and get a new one. I couldn't believe this as you can't just toss an 800.00 piece of equipment out if it leaks. Does anyone have experience with recharging/check refrigerant on a JBJ chiller?

I did run a test though on a 5 gallon bucket of water. I got it cooled from 90 degrees down to 37 degrees in about 45 - 50 minutes. Not sure if that is fast or not but at least it's cooling.

 

[The Apprentice]

tell tail leaks

Good points jsmkmavity How ever Matt look at your Copper lines if they look or feel oily, Then you more than likely have a Freon Leak look over the entire radatior section for anysigns of oil or any point dirt is sticking to any piping...
Good luck

the refrigerant doesnt "wear out" or just evaporate into thin air. if you are not getting the normal performance in any refrigeration equipment the first thing to do is clean the heat exchanger. you said you flushed it out and that is good, and that should help. i dont know the inside diameter or the length of tubing in the heat exchanger but if its not too long you could run a long brush thru it to help clean it. dont use too stiff of a brush because it can get stuckif you have to pull it back half way thru. iff too long for a brush you could try and slide a flexible rod with a small bit of rag thru it. if these are not options call the manufacturer and ask what kind of cleaners are safe to use to disolve build-up. i dont know what their heat exchangers are made of so i cant recommend anything in particular. if you can flush with water both ways with a strong pump i think you will be happy with the results for some time. if something did cause the refrigerant to leak they are telling you the truth about getting another one. too expensive to fix and usually the repairs dont last very long or dont even work at all!

 

[fishermann]

Sounds like you solved your problem yourself Matt:badgrin: . Like above if you have a leak you well see signs of oil residue on the coil and tubing, but if it was full of crud like you said you were not getting a very good exchange in the coil.

 

[liveforphysics]

I can put that rechargeing T-fitting into the system if you want. You can get AC rechargeing cans at wallmart or autoparts stores for about $10.

If you want me to tell you exactly how efficient your chiller is working, I am willing to calculate it out for you if you want. I would just need you to start with a known amount of water, at a known temperature to begin.

To compensate for ambient temp interference, insulateing the bucket with a blanket wrapped around it would improve the accuracy of the experiment, as would starting a X-temp above ambient, and ending the test at X-temp below ambient. Anyways, run that little test, and I can tell you how many HP your chiller is actaully subtracting from the water.

 

[mattseattle]

wow! thanks everyone!

well i looked over all the coils and did not notice any discoloration or any dirt sticking. i think it's most likely the heat exchanger being dirty and it was pretty damn dirty. i think i'll probably do another cleaning of it. it's a titanium heat exchanger or so they say and it's pretty tightly coiled with probably a 3/4" piping.

hey luke - thanks for the offer. let's try the test and we'll go from there.

i did a quick test when i hooked it back up to my main aquarium. it's roughly 60 gallons of water. the temperature of the tank was 82.5 when i hooked it back up and within 45 - 50 minutes it dropped the tank temperature down to 79.5. i'll time it more precisely tomorrow and let you know as i'll do a bucket test.

i also looked around for a refill nipple while i had the case off. definitely was not one. it has the tubing cut and soldered where they filled it so it's not easily servicable. i did read where people have added a valve and did the refill themselves. the one thing that really lead me to believe it's not leaking freon is that i was able to drop a 5 gallon bucket of water from 90 degrees down to 37 degrees in about an hour or little less. that is quite a substantial cooling even though it's such a small amount of water. i would think it was really low on freon that it would barely be able to chill the water.

it's kind of strange that an 800.00 chiller would not be easily serviced and that they would make you buy a new one. i think that is definitely something to look at if you ever have to buy a chiller or replace a chiller. i mean jbj's are great chillers and it's super quiet. also, yeah freon should last a long long time.

 

[liveforphysics]

That little crimped over and soldered nipple that factorys use to fill disposable refer units with is really easy to cut off and solder a shrader valve or some other refilable valve onto. I like to cut the AC refil nipples off of cars AC systems, and weld or braze them into refer systems so I can use automotive recharging setups.

My only experience is useing them with lasers, I've never used them on reefs.

 

[mattseattle]

yeah, i thought it would probably be pretty easy to convert it.

 

[-=dieseldave=-]

In addition to the above running a 50/50 vinegar and water mix, backwards flow for a few hours then the forward again for a few more, should help remove any calcification.

 

[jsmkmavity]

hey luke and others- if you cut open a refrigeration system to add a service valve you dont just leak refrigerant, some oil may be lost as well and the right type and amount needs to be put back in. the cans at auto stores come in varieties with or without oil and dye for detecting leaks with a uv lite. also after servicing the unit needs to be drawn down to a near perfect vacuum to remove any water,air and other contaminants before recharging. the air left in a system will degrade its performance and the moisture present in that air will degrade the oil and decrease the life of the compressor. if you paid a real tech. to do all this properly it would cost a lot and that is why i dont recommend it to the average user. if you or someone you know can do it properly then the cost isnt so bad. i just know from experience that small refrigeration systems are to easy to get foriegn matter stuck in the capillary tubes and adding any type of service port that doesnt braze-on is a leak waiting to happen. even the oil residue left on the inside of the tubing can soot up and plug the small tubing from the heat during brazing. if you braze without nitrogen in the system the copper will oxydize and flake off on the inside where you brazed your fitting. if it was mine and it needed this type of repair i would try it once because it wouldnt cost me any thing, but if i had to pay someone else-no way!