looking for designs on 50 gal sump/refuge

[holdendaniel]

i have a 55 gal tank im turning into a sump and refuge and cant decide where to put my dividers for the walls. i have heard to put skimmer before fuge then return pump after fuge?

anything will help

 

[mfinn]

many ways to do it.
I have my skimmer in the first compartment where the water enters, my refugium second, then the third compartments is the return area.

 

[jrgilles]

I built a sump from a 50 breeder. I ended up making it 2 chambers, one where the water comes in and where I put the protein skimmer (maybe 1/3 of the volume, with 4 baffles separating from the return chamber and also a bubble tower where the drain comes in) and then the return chamber, which I made big and I have all my equipment (media filter, heaters, return pump, pH and temp probe, grounding probe, etc.) In mine I ended up moving the fuge to its own tank to have more room in the return chamber.

My first design though had the fuge in the sump, and I had it arranged: Fill chamber - return chamber - Fuge. Where the drain line for the tank split off so the sump filled from the fill chamber, and a small amount of flow (controllable) went to the fuge, then both of these chambers merged into the return chamber. I liked that design, but I wasn't able to get the fuge big enough for my liking without having a tiny return chamber (mostly due to losing space to baffles, as I was putting in 3 baffles separating both the fill chamber from the return, and separating the fuge from the return.)

I liked the fill - return - fuge setup because I could maintain control over flow through the fuge. if you had it fill - fuge - return, the fuge rate would have to be equal to the rate of the return pump.

Let me see if I can find the image from melevsreef that I was modeling after...

here we go, check out these designs and see what you think. Sump F is probably what you want to go for, and it has the plumbing shown also and more discription:

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/e/sump_model_e.html

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html

This was my favored design before I decided to move the fuge out to its own tank (although my design had more baffles after the fuge to control bubbles.) I'd maybe add in 1 more fuge baffle to this design if you had room, with that baffle being a high one (sticking out of the water) to the right of the perforated fuge baffle. That would stop some of the bubbles coming off of the algae and the fuge fill from getting into the return and into the display. Could probably do without it though.

I have maybe 1 1/4 inches between each baffle in the sump I built.

You could also do it how finn suggested, you just lose the ability to control the fuge flow rate separately from the sump (I keep my fuge flow rate fairly low.)

rob

 

[jrgilles]

Surf through melevsreef.com and you should get a much better idea of how to set things up. Its a great page to give you a basic education on how to build a sump.

good luck

 

[holdendaniel]

siliconeto use

is the non toxic silicone a must when putting baffles in? any suggestions on how to space glass apart and to seal way down in the bottom of tank

 

[jrgilles]

You're attaching glass to glass? If so, silicone is what you want. Get it at lowe's or something, just make sure it is the exterior one, not the one for windows or bathrooms. If it has any anti-mildew ingredients, its bad for your tank.

For spacing them, I just found a book of a good thickness, and used that. I put in one, let it dry for 24H, then put in a book as a spacer (I think it was 1 1/4" or 1.5" or somewhere between there.)

I saw someone who built the sump on its side, by using a bunch of spacers, was able to put in all the baffles at once.

For controlling the space below the high baffles, you can cut a strip of carboard, then cut pieces from them and bend them into an "L" shape, and put a few of those under the baffle, or you can again use another book.

If you're going glass to acrylic (I used acrylic baffles with a glass tank), Weld-on 40 works well. I did that to stick them together, then I also went over it with silicone.

rob

 

[mfinn]

I used pieces of 2x4 to keep the space between my baffles.

 

[holdendaniel]

glass on glass still deciding ezact dimensions for the baffles. i got some DAP brand aqaurium silicone sealent for 5$ a tube at lowes.skinny distance between baffles better?

 

[jrgilles]

I'd leave at least an inch, maybe more. If its too skinny, the flow will be too fast and the bubbles won't separate out at the bubble wall. A wider space makes slower flow (although the baffles quickly eat up sump space.)

I also sometimes insert a piece of foam between the baffles when I want to add in mechanical filtration. This would be hard to do if the baffles were too tight.

If I remember right, melevsreef also recommends keeping the baffle space at about an inch.

 

[holdendaniel]

i saw melevesreef. i think for plumbing ease im just gonna have it flow in the left with the skimmer section, then go trough the bubble trap(3 walls) to the refugium<then trough bubble trap#2, tell it reaches the sump.how do u suggest reaching them bottom ofthe baffles with silicone LOL?

 

[holdendaniel]

how hard is it to polish the sharp glass edges? sand papper grit#?

 

[TheKraken]

I will try the "pressure locking sump baffle" on my next project.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Baffles/bafflesart.htm

 

[jrgilles]

never sanded glass edges, but I'd guess you want maybe 180 or 220 grit? Just a guess, I'd think course like 80 grit you could end up chipping the glass, so I'd go pretty fine. I found this online, might be better than paper which it might cut through....

http://www.etsy.com/listing/28879875/glass-wipe-edging-stone-34-x-6-fine-grit

I just found on a google search, could probably ebay that.

As for silicone in the bottom crack, never came up with a good idea. I tried putting a short piece of tube on the bottom to reach down there, but too much pressure buildup.

Maybe just put a big bead on the bottom and sides, fit the glass into it, then reinforce the side you can see.

It doesn't matter if you baffle isn't 100% water tight, it will still do its job. Just needs to be held in place really.

The pressure lock looks good, but you have to use acrylic baffles to get it to glue well I think. Might be tough to get them to fit right too, but would be awesome once you had em working

rob

 

[holdendaniel]

what is a good price to get glass sanded a ' ? have you seen any good 55gal aga tanks turned into sump(skimmer/refugium/return) besides the acrylic.

 

[holdendaniel]

that pressure lock looks like it would work good but might fail easier then the old way?

 

[mfinn]

Lay out the pattern on each side (outside) of the sump with a sharpie marker. Use a tape measure and straight edge and mark exactly where each baffle is going to be.
Do the center one first. If it is a up one, put your spacers underneath, set the baffle in place, use some duct tape and secure it. ( make sure they will come out, when the other baffles are in place or wait untill the center one dries.) You will have easy access on both sides.
Doing a bottom one is eay. On the part thats hard to get to, just put silicone where the sharpie marks are. Push the baffle into place, a little into the silicone. Secure with more duct tape, then do the easy side.

Does that make sense?

 

[jrgilles]

I think the pressure lock would be good if you got a good seal, but you might have to cut a few pieces of acrylic to get it to fit right. Doesn't acrylic also expand a bit when you fill the sump? Seems that would make it even harder to fit.

I like the idea though. Saw someone else talking about marketing commercial sumps that would have groves the baffles could slide in and out of then they had some sort of seal. Would be great for flexability