Losing Fish and not sure why!!

[jayfab2g]

Hello all! This is my first post and i hope someone can help me out. I have had my tank setup for about 4 months now and everything seemed to be all well. We were patient and waited for the tank to cycle and my levels currently are as follows:
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 18-20
Ammonia: 0
Phospate: 0-.2

We have introduced quite a bit of live stock to the tank since then as well. For fish we started out with 2 false percula clowns, 1 blue hippo tang, and a yellow tang. Since then we've added a green chromis, 1 Moorish Idol (didn't make it), 1 Powder blue tang, 1 shrimp goby, 1 Dragon goby, assorted snails and crabs for cleaning, and 1 cleaner shrimp. Just recently over the past couple of weeks we lost our shrimp goby, blue hippo, and powder blue tangs. I checked my levels and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. The blue hippo seemed to be healthy one day and then 3 days later she was completely gone. Nowhere to be found along with my shrimp goby. And then yesterday I found my powder blue just bobbing by my drain, lifeless. Can't understand why I'm losing so many fish. I also have inverts as well including:
Fox coral
Closed brain
Bubble tip and Long tentacle anenomes
Torch and Frogspawn Coral
Xenia and Kenya tree
Assorted Xoa's

Do I have to much in my tank at this point. I have a 125 gallon long with 2 150 watt metal halides and a 40 gallon sump. Skimmer is working double time filling up the cup about every week. Can someone please help me out. Thanks. Jerry in Port Orchard.

 

[seattle989]

Overstocking way to much....:[ poor tangs...
Are you quarantining your fish before you add them to the main display?
How are you acclimating your fish?
4 months is still pretty early.
please read some of the stickies lee has posted. gl

 

[jayfab2g]

I acclimate the new fish by doing what I was told and that is giving fish 50/50 of tank water and bag water for about 20 to 30 mins in the bag. And then add to tank. The blue hippo had been in my tank since the cycling had completed and the powder had been in for the last month or so.

 

[baseballkid5]

Watch out for the TANG police! Has your tank been getting overheated in the last couple weeks? What kind of Diet did the Fish have? 4 months isnt that bad if things have been cycled for 30 days or more. As long as the Bacteria had been taken care of during the cycling process. Also the tangs and moorish idol youve listed are not the easiest of tangs to Keep anyway. Is the Yellow tang still alive?

 

[returnofsid]

Unfortunately, you introduced a couple of the hardest fish there are, in our hobby. The Moorish Idol has a dismal survival rate, in captivity. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone but the most experienced and only with a very large aquarium. The Power Blue Tang is another very difficult fish, again, I wouldn't recommend it for any except the most experienced.

Blue Hippo Tangs can also be somewhat tough to keep. It's very common for them to get Ich or infections.

Also, IMO, a 125 isn't big enough for that many fish, of those types. In a tank that size, I wouldn't put more than 1 or 2 of the smaller Tang species. Yellow Tang, Scopas Tang, Purple Tang...etc. Maybe a Sailfin Tang, if it was the only tang in the tank.

A 4 month old tank is still very new. You're showing extremely high levels of nitrates. In a reef tank, your nitrates and phosphates should be at undetectable levels.

I know you mentioned that you were patient, but I'd question that, given the amount of fish you added to a tank in a 4 month period. In this hobby, "patience" can sometimes be described on a glacial scale. Glaciers move extremely slow and so should we.

What type of skimmer do you have?
Can you describe your maintenance schedule?
Are you using RO/DI water?
Is there anything that you're dosing the tank with?

 

[seattle989]

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27022 (quarantine)
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35511 (fish stocking)
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28484( mature aquarium)

u may get better awnser if this was moved to lee's section of the forum our fish expert. hopefully other people with chime in too.( oh and they did )

my thoughts: this tank is still young. 3 tangs and idol (bioload wise, space wise, did they all get along?) overall overstocking.

 

[Red C Aquarium]

Jerry

I don't think you over stocked the aquarium, but something is not right.

Live rock ? Is there at least a pound per gallon?

Does the sump have bio-balls in it ?

How much are you feeding per day?

What is your salinity level, and what kind of salt ?

Where are you getting these animals? Are they from a quality source?Online?

Call me if you want we can help you over the phone, good luck !

206-417-2772
ARSA

 

[jayfab2g]

Thanks for all the info guys. My yellow tang is still alive and well. And right now I am dosing the tank with Coral vital which was recommended by my LFS. I have been adhering to doing water changes every week or so with RO/DI water from the unit I purchased. I check levels every week as well. I know my nitrates are kinda high and I have tried doing large water changes (35 gallons) a day for 4 days to combat that but to no avail. I use instant ocean salt with my changes as well. I don't know what particular brand of skimmer I have as it came with the setup when I bought it. I know it has a Sedra 350 gph pump. Something is better than nothing. Thanks again for all your help. I think we will hold off on putting anymore livestock in until the tank is further along. I do have live rock in the tank (about 160 lbs.) I don't have any bio balls which might help. I feed the fish a mixture of frozen brine shrimp and flake food every other day and the corals get a helping of oyster feast every other day. My salinity hovers around .025 and I check during my water changes to make sure it matches. I get my livestock at my LFS in Silverdale (The Shark Reef). The owner is very knowledgeable and hasn't steered me wrong.

 

[returnofsid]

Jerry

I don't think you over stocked the aquarium

2 false percula clowns, 1 blue hippo tang, yellow tang, green chromis, 1 Moorish Idol (didn't make it), 1 Powder blue tang, 1 shrimp goby, 1 Dragon goby in a 125 is seriously overstocked, in a well established tank, let alone a new tank. Yes, 4 months is still a very new tank. I would suggest that's the main cause of your nitrate issue and the death of some of the fish.

 

[seattle989]

dont use bioballs.. worthless. with a 40 gallon sump im sure u could fit a nice refugium in there somewhere GL.

 

[gotfish]

That's overstocked? I could see that if they were all fully grown maybe. I love it when some people will say a tank is overstocked then you go to their house and they have more fish then the person they were goin off on. Not that that is anyone who said anything, just an observation of the hobby.

I have 1 striatus tang, 1 scopas tang, 1 scribbled rabbit, 1 dragon goby, 1 starry blenny, 3 green chromis, 1 orange spot goby, 1 unknown shrimp goby, 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 2 spot blenny, 1 mandarin and 2 sharknose gobies in the same size tank. If people want to get on me, come check out how fat and colorful each of them are and then check my tanks parameters.

The other thing, 18-20 is not too high of nitrates for fish. When you get up to the 40's, then you can start worrying. The best thing though is to keep them as low as possible. Either way, 18-20 is not the cause of your fish deaths. The only reason people try to keep their trates undetectable is for sps.

I would have to say, it seems that you need to up your feeding. Seeing as how the fish seem to be dying after having them for a month or so. Especially with the moorish idol, unless you were feeding it sponges and it's other natural foods, I'm sure that's the reason it passed. The fish aren't getting much nutrition from the flake/brine shrimp and being that you're feeding it every other day is even worse. The tangs need a good source of seaweed. The rest of the fish need a good source of meat and you're not feeding either of those. PM a member named Jnarowe, he lives out by you and he just recently took his tank down. He had some monster sized tangs along with a lot of seaweed. He may still have some and might be willing to sell it. Also, he knows his stuff when it comes to taking care of fish and could give you some good info. Start feeding mysis shrimp and go to your local grocery store and buy some raw table shrimp, mussels and some cheap white fish. Take that and cut it up into small enough chunks for the fish to eat. It's cheaper then buying stuff from your LFS.

Good luck.

 

[Red C Aquarium]

Sid I'm sure my advice is wrong.

I have seen a lot worse in a 55 gallon tank

 

[Allenfamily]

I think that the acclimation process needs to be way more than 20-30 minutes. I don't know if that is why your fish are dying but 30 minutes isn't enough time and just adding 50% of your tank water seems like a bad plan from the start. If you have a sump float them in there and set up a drip with 1/4" tube into the bag, if you don't have a sump you can float them in the tank and use a baster to add a teaspoon at a time every ten minutes over a few hours. When the bag gets full dump some out and keep going. Acclimation may not be the reason the fish you have lost died but without changing that process it will eventually be the reason fish die.

 

[trido]

IMO eight fish in a 125 is about right. Depending on the size of the fish of course. Yes, the four large fish in this case is pushing the envelope. In my old 120, I used to keep 8 fish fat and colorful, two of which were tangs. Everytime I added a ninth regardless of species, one would die. Eight fish was the max for that system IMO. I now have 20 fish in my 210, the three largest are tangs.


I would agree that underfeeding is likely the cause of the fish deaths and the type of food is probably part of the nitrate issue along with the tank being young. It takes about a year for things to really settle in and stabilize in a reef. I agree with Gotfish, I use clams and prawns from the store along with cyclopeze, mysis and rotifers for my frozen meaty food. Nori in the morning and meat in the evening. Daily=fat healthy fish. YOu just need to find the balance between overfeeding and algeas
IMO homemade food conatains less phoshates, and the bits that the fish donet get feed the microfauna like pods and feather dusters. Do you think featherduster prefer flake food?

 

[krisfal]

I am in agreement with the theory these fish are not getting enough food. I believe tangs should be fed no less than 3 times a day. They need lots and lots of algae, in the wild they graze constantly.

Every other day feeding is no where near enough, and the food you are giving has next to no nutritional value. All your food should be whole seafood (and brine shrimp are not seafood, they are a brackish water creature). If you want to not mess with making your own food (which in my opinion is the best method), then Rod's food (barrier Reef carries it, most of Ocean Nutrition formulas (frozen) are good options. You can buy algae sheets at your LFS or buy plain unflavored Nori at your safeway or an asian market.

When feeding Algae it should take the fish an entire hour to consume the amount you feed.

 

[roscoe]

I love it when some people will say a tank is overstocked then you go to their house and they have more fish then the person they were goin off on.

That is some great observation Kerri. I noticed that too ALOT. I thought I was the only one!:lol::lol: Do as I say not as I do personalities gotta love them:lol::lol::lol:!