Micro air

[scootertrash]

I'm a rookie at salt water. I recently purchased a 180 gal. reef setup. All livestock was included. I think the previous owner lost interest and neglected it badly. It has been setup a little over 2 and a half months now and of course we have the usual battles with all the algaes and diatoms. I think we might even have a case of old tank syndrome since the previous owner had it about 7 years and obviously rarely ever cleaned or did water changes on a regular basis. But my main thing is now .....all the micro air that seems to come and go from the tank. It is a drilled tank with corner overflows on each end. The overflows are the Durso type. There are a few medium sized bubbles in the overflow on each end but a massive amount of air coming from the overflow down in the sump and the water flow is much higher on one end than the other. If it matters the overflow line from the bottom of the tank to the sump is much longer and made from the flex type pipe on one end also. I tried installing gate valves on the overflow lines and adjusting them along with the gate valve for the return pump. I guess one question I have is.....do both of the return lines need to be the same length.? Is there a way to adjust overflow water rate of flow to the rate of flow for the return supply pump.?

 

[IPisces]

Well the overflow is only going to flow as fast as the return pump is pumping it in. So if you slow your return pump down, it will in turn slow down the flow in the overflow.
I do not see why both overflow lines have to be the same length. As long as they are unobstructed they should flow the same. Mine are not the same length, however I am using a durso standpipe style.

 

[IPisces]

Oh welcome to Reef Frontiers and welcome to the hobby!

 

[scootertrash]

Thanks for the welcome.I have a slower rate of water return to the sump from one of my corner overflows and wondering is this something to be concerned about.? I would think the flow from each overflow would and should be the same. It's the durso standpipe style overflows. The only difference in the two overflows is down below at the sump. One is piped in pvc and the one with the low flow rate is a flexible type piping which I dont think makes any difference. Possibly a blockage of some sort in the overflow return plumbing on that one end.? The air in the corner overflow boxes seems to be coming from the tank but it is only a very small amount of bubbles yet down in the sump the water almost looks like its at a boil. Trying to catch and stop the micro air from getting to the DT tank I have sponges....filter mat.....phosphate mat and filter socks and a bubble trap. All sources of water returning to the sump have to pass through some sort of trap. By the way...I bought this tank from somone from another state and he delivered it to me water and all. Even livestock. It's been up and running here for about 3 months now. I realize things have to cycle and the process takes time but every since this tank has been running it has been one problem after another. The chemistry was a total mess I think due to lack of routine care such as cleaning and water changes. And I'm not sure if the micro air may be adding to my problems or not. I feel like if I have alot of air in the sump and refug then some of it if not all of it is being chopped up by my return pump and pumped into the tank. But I'm out of ideas on where the air may be coming from.

 

[IPisces]

Can you take pics of all areas of the system and post them. easiest is to host the pics on a media sharing site like photobucket or flickr or others. Then past the image code in the quick reply box.
If the flow is restricted by elbos or bends of any kind, it will flow slower. If the pipe is a different size, the smaller one may flow slower. water may even flow slower thru hose that it does pvc especially if it is corrugated type hose.

I hope that with pics someone can help figure out where there might be a cause for the issues your having.

 

[trido]

If one overflow has more water flowing through than the other my first question is always..... Is your tank perfectly level? If your tank is as little as an 1/8th inch out of level more water will flow into one end. Also, if you have one strong powerhead closer to the surface pointed to the overflow that will also cause more water to flow into one end.

One more thing, You said you've installed gate valves on each of the overflow lines near the sump. Its a real bad idea to restrict the flow of those unless you have a safety overflow set up with the herbie or bean animal methods. Its only a matter of time before one of them plugs up a bit and you overflow the top of the tank.

 

[scootertrash]

I'll have to go to photo bucket later today and set up an account so I can post some pics. I checked the tank and it's dead on level. I removed the gate valves I had in the overflows. Also the end that has the lowest return flow to the sump is the end that has the flexible corrugated line. I'm not sure why the previous owner used this flex but I will remove it and replace with pvc as soon as I get the chance. Also....just how crucial is equal flow..or am I concerning myself with things that really dont matter.....like I said....I'm new at this and just dont know what if any this differance in water flow may have on the tank. My big concern is the ,icro air which may also be nothing to worry about. I really have no idea.

 

[mfinn]

Also....just how crucial is equal flow..or am I concerning myself with things that really dont matter.....like I said....I'm new at this and just dont know what if any this differance in water flow may have on the tank. My big concern is the ,icro air which may also be nothing to worry about. I really have no idea.

I wouldn't worry about it.
Need pictures of the sump, bubble traps, skimmer, return pump areas.

 

[myindoorocean]

I didn't like that bubbling with the durso style overflow so I figured out how to set up a herbie and I love it. The durso sounded like a hot tub when i had it below the surface of the water in the sump, and like a waterfall when it was above the surface. It seems the herbie may work for you, you could adjust the gate valves to even the flow and it's totally silent and no bubbles. But you do have to have backup overflows or you're asking for trouble.

 

[scootertrash]

The wife just took some pics.....will be uploading to photo bucket soon

 

[scootertrash]

I have some pics downloaded to photobucket finally. When I figure out how to post the link here ...I will as soon as possible.

 

[scootertrash]

I have some pics downloaded to photobucket finally. When I figure out how to post the link here ...I will as soon as possible.

 

[scootertrash]

Aquarium Photos by scootertrash2 | Photobucket

 

[scootertrash]

I just uploaded the link to the photos. I hope it loads up for you guys.....excuse the mess but the whole sump area is under construction...LOL.

 

[scootertrash]

I think I'm going to give up on trying the get equal water flow from both returns since one flows directly into the refugium. As a rookie I'm thinking that I probably dont want a real high rate of flow through the refugium .So I can now focus all my time and energy in trying to figure out how all the air thats coming out of my returns in the sump is getting into the system. My only idea there is to completely rework all the overflow return piping and glue every single fitting and being sure to install a union in each return line.

 

[mfinn]

I like to use a slower flow through my sump. For a slower flow, usually 3x to 5x the tank volume is considered the norm.
I also like to use what is called bubble traps to help eliminate micro bubbles in the display tank.
Not sure I see any in your picture.
Plus, how far is the skimmer output from the return pump? Skimmers can be a major source of micro bubbles.

 

[IPisces]

That was my thought too. It looks like the skimmer is in the same section as the liine out to the return pump.
The skimmer will cause a lot of micro bubbles.

 

[scootertrash]

Well with all my reading and research I have concluded that with the durso type standpipes there is no way to avoid all the noise and turbulent air in my sump. In order to try to keep my sanity in tact I'm switching to the herbie style. Since my tank has 2 corner overflows I assume a herbie at each end of the tank will work. My next question would be concerning the pipe size for the herbie. Each corner has 2 bulkhead fittings in it. They take a 1" pipe but the existing durso reduces from 1.5" standpipe down to 1" where it goes through the bulkhead. When I go to the herbie style can I do all the piping in 1" or should I keep the overflow in 1.5" and do the emergency drain in 1". I cant see any real difference since they both pass through a 1" bulkhead. I will post a photo of my existing overflow shortly.

 

[scootertrash]

unfortunately where I have my skimmer is the only place that it will fit in my sump. and it is in line with the outlet to the return pump. The only thing between my skimmer and pump are a few sponges and some filter media and the bubble traps that were built into the sump.

 

[scootertrash]