Monster Emperor Angelfish question

[fbacungan]

Hi fellow RF's,

I'm looking for some input from other owners of large angelfish.

By the way, I asked several LFS's to special order me an extra large Emperor Angel for my 400 gallon FOWLR. The biggest that I've seen at most LFS's were about 6 inches.

Eric at The Shark Reef in Silverdale, WA said that he can get me a bigger one. I said, "I'd need to see it to believe it". I think he took that as a challenge.

He got me an 11 inch BEAUTIFUL Emperor Angel 2 days ago. The biggest and most beautiful that I've seen except at large public aquariums. The diameter of the five gallon bucket is 11 inches.

My only concern is transitioning this guy to a "captivity" type of feeding. While I see that his appetite is healthy (I've seen him picking at my live rock for food), he doesn't eat free floating type food that I feed the other fish. Maybe it's a little too early?? Maybe he's in transtion and he'll eventually eat?

I have some very aggressive fish in the tank that eats everything in sight (clown trigger, pink tank trigger, lunar wrasse, tangs). I feed the tank pellet formula one and two, home made seafood mixture, and several kinds of nori.

To large angelfish owners:
- how long did it eventually take for it to accept your prepared food?
- What did you feed it initially to get it to eat? and what is it eating now?
- and how long did your fish last in captivity before it died of natural causes?

Fred B

 

[leebca]

Hey Fred.

My 36 years of experience with adult large Angelfish is that they should be left in the ocean. Not only are they 'breeders' but they are an extreme challenge to adapt to captivity. The aquarium size needs to be 300+ gallons for such a specimen. The fish is, like most Angelfish, suspicious and cautious. It won't want to compete with very assertive fishes, like your Clown Trigger.

Although it may have had a chance if it was quarantined in a 90 gallon for many weeks while it adjusted to captivity and the foods you want to feed, the success rate is low for large Angelfish. Still, the quarantine process for these fishes is almost imperative to give it sanctuary while adjusting, and the eating training they very much need. You see, the older these fish get, the more they settle into eating just a very narrow list of foods. The younger ones are more adventurous and willing to try new things -- the old ones get set in their ways. This fish is probably used to eating just a couple of things it routinely finds in its home.

These fish, in their native environment will 'pick' at their food sources four or five times a minute. This presents another problem of frequent feedings.

Having passed the quarantine process, the hope now is that this fish will 'catch on' and begin eating because it sees the other fishes eating. Your list of foods includes nori. If it is nori and not commercially available macro algae for marine fishes, I'd suggest switching. Make sure to supply plenty of this. You also should be presenting the food in different ways. See this post I've written: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...tment/21406-food-presentation.html#post153526

Sometimes a very large water change will stimulate fishes to eating. Why I don't know. But I have seen it happen and have done so myself. The water change needs to be in excess of 60% and performed very carefully with temp, pH, and salinity controlled.

Good luck!

 

[LakeEd]

Fred,

I understand that many people still don't use (understand the need???) for a good QT setup... but I think as Lee has pointed out, this is one of those PERFECT examples of where using a QT would make life for our new fish soooo much more easy on us and then.

Right now, you new beautiful fish is scared and confused. It has lived its life in the wild, with miles and miles of swimming a day while it finds the types of food that it has come to enjoy. Some big 'ol scary "HUMAN" has come and taken that all away from it! Now, its stuck in this tiny box (compaired with what it was used to), and nothing is the same as what it has ALWAYS known. *sniffle*

Having a fish like that in a QT, would allow you to help calm it some... even though it is still in captivity, and give you the benifit of training it to eat the foods you can now provide it without the added stress of it having to learn how to compete with other tank-mates for that strange food.

All of that being said, the large water change trick Lee mentioned might be interesting, but with your water volumn at about 400gal, I don't think that is going to be an option for you either.

I don't know if this is going to be a good idea, and hopefully Lee can also jump in on this suggestion... but perhaps if you were OVER FEEDING your tank for a few days during this Angel's "break-in" period... the rest of your heavy eaters will kinda settle down at feeding time, and help remove some of the "competition stress" and perhaps your Angel will start eating???

Just tossing out an idea. In any case, please let us know how things are going, and keep the pictures of this beautiful fish comming!!!

 

[leebca]

Ed,

Your idea is good, and I had thought about it. But the Clown Trigger is the primary problematic fish. It is a 'bottomless pit' when it comes to food and feeding. Overfeeding the tank means overfeeding the Trigger. If this is an exception to that generality, then overfeeding may work. :?:

Actually one of the best enticing foods is an open clam or opened fresh scallop or pieces of scallop. But that Trigger would horde most if not all of it. The Angel would need time to 'inspect it' and pick slowly at it.

There is a chance if the Trigger and any other aggressive fishes can be 'corralled' into a part of the tank and, with a divider, kept separate from the Angelfish. Then, like a sanctuary, the Angel may be dealt with more on an individual basis. :idea:

I have performed a 70% water change on my 700 gallon system. Not easy, but I have the equipment for such an event. It's the only way to make an immediate reduction of a pollutant.

 

[fbacungan]

Hi Lee and Ed,

Thanks for the input. I certainly feel compassion for this fish. It reminds of the movie "Finding Nemo" where Nemo just wanted to go back to its ocean home. The culprit is humans. Those darn humans!!

There is a very fine line between keeping animals in its native habitat and the entertainment value for us, humans. We could probably debate this, even get borderline political, but I don't want to open up a can of worms here.

I was concerned about my clown trigger when I first got it. It didn't eat for the first 5 days. Now it eats everything in sight. In Reef Central, a gal's large Blue Face Angel didn't eat for the first two weeks. Now it eats like a pig. I'm hoping this guy is like that.

I'll try all of your suggestions and keep you posted, (if it interests you).

 

[matts125]

I agree on the QT setup and it is a must!
But my biggest concern for your tank is that clown trigger, how big is it? you know once those fish get to a certain size they will dominate your tank and kill every last thing in it over night? I use to have one that was 8'' and it killed several of my fish including a large volitan lionfish!
My point here is once these fish are adult they are a one fish per tank only fish even in a very large tank...

I hope the Beautiful angel turns out well for you...

Matt

 

[SharkReef]

Fred,

It can take the angel quite some time to start eating and for my other customers that have large fish only tanks it seems to take about 1 week before they start eating, but sometimes longer. I asked a friend/customer that has a boat load of fish in his tank including about 5 large angels, crosshatch triggers, and other large fish like wrasses and this is what he said.

My Angels love the Seaweed sheets #1,dry Krill, frozen Krill, and mysis shrimp, also the flakes.The angel don't go crazy for Silver sides u can try. I hope this helps.

I ususally get the angels eating formula 2 flake in the shop especially the nice large flakes when you open a new fresh can. Also something to try is live macro algaes like Macro-feast. My angels usually eat that up really well.

Hope this helps some.