My blenny desperately needs help!!!!

[dragonchick_7]

I have been dealing with an ick (or ich, whatever) issue for the past week and a half. I first noticed it on my tang, then my clownfish. I lost my flame angel and two blennies before I could quarantine them. I now have them quarantined(to save my corals), and I am treating them with copper. Eric (at SR) to me to keep the copper at 2.5, so I've had it like that for about a week, now. The tang and clownfish are looking great, but my one remaining scooter blenny's eye was clouded over yesterday. I was hoping the it would clear up, but both are now clouded, and he has holes all over his head/fins. I can actually see through a hole on one of his fin... The water is practically perfect. I've kept the salinity consistant (at around 1.022), and the heat up just a bit (at 78°). I'm just beside myself (in tears actually) trying to figure out what to do. I don't have another tank to qt him away from the other fish, so I'm at a complete loss... Any suggestions whatsoever would be helpful and very much appreciated.

 

[gman0526]

Since another QT seems to be out of the question I would recommend that you feed some kind of antibiotic to the fish.

Hold it together, I know it's hard to lose that many fish, but all you can strive for is to provide the best care possible with what you have at hand at the moment. Keep us posted, we're here to try and help you as much as we can.

I forgot to add that a good AB that can be administered with food is praziquantel

 

[dragonchick_7]

Just to update a little bit, the blenny died last night. I removed him as soon as I noticed. The tang has the small hole-looking abrasions, but he seems to be otherwise fine. I'm continuing the copper treatment in hopes that it will help the fish fully recover before I put them back in the reef tank. (At least I still have my corals.) Do you think I should use the AB on the tang and clownfish just in case? If so, where would I get that? I think I can probably get that from my MD, but I'd rather not if there's another way. I'll do what I have to, though! Thanks for the help and support...... Merry Christmas!

 

[ronj]

first of all, what kind of copper are you using??? hopefully Cupramine!!Praziquantel is for treatment of internal worms or parasites..don't use it unless this is the problem...also, what is your ph?? don't let it get low during copper treatment..can you get a pic of the fins???? what all is in your qt tank???

 

[Damsel13]

Sorry for your losses and stress.

 

[dragonchick_7]

Sorry it took me so long to reply. My internet connection at home is unreliable, and the workplace is busy right now....
I keep the ph at 1.82. I am using Mardel Coppersafe, as it was recommended by a trusted source. I am not able to find any specification as far as Cupramine/Praziquantel is concerned, however, it is stated on the bottle that it is used for the treatment of ick. I have been doing daily water changes of about 2-3 gallons(it's a 10-gallon tank).
The only thing I am concerned about, seeing as the blenny is gone, is the hole-looking spots on the tang's face. It may just be damage from him rubbing against rocks when he had the ick, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.....

 

[ronj]

i guess you mean 8.2 for the ph..if you are already using Coppersafe that's fine...Cupramine is the best(and safest) copper....also,i wouldn't use any meds until you know what the problem is....what are you feeding the tang???

 

[dragonchick_7]

lol.. Yes, I meant 8.2... (It's been a long day. ) I feed the tang and clownfish mysis shrimp once a day. I just read something on here about feeding them seaweed. I can't believe I deprived him of that because of ignorance, but I want to do what's best for him..*guilty*... I'd never had a tang before, so I didn't know about that, but next time I'm out in Silverdale, I will definately be going by Eric's shop for some. Do you have any suggestions for other things that would help?

 

[ronj]

the holes could possibly be the beginning of Head and Lateral Line Erosion...this can be caused by nutritional deficiency or bad water...the mysis shrimp have zero nutritional value for the fish..the tang needs the nori and other herbivore foods in its diet..getting some Zoe and Zoecon(vitamins and ammino's) will help reverse HLLE, if that is the problem(the holes in its face)

 

[dragonchick_7]

I found a pic on a forum on here that looks just like what's going on with the tang.. The pic is here: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=18405&d=1166550569
(I hope no one minds)...
A freshwater bath was recommended, and I just wanted to get another opinion. I will DEFINATELY get some seaweed this week. Is there anything else I should know about as far as what he needs to be happy?
Your help is very much appreciated!

 

[ronj]

that's funny..those are my tangs!!!!! a freshwater bath won't do much for that!! if you mean the sores on its body, they are scars from some sort of pod that attached itself to the fish..they started out as small white bumps(they resembled ich), then they grew larger..they eventually turned dark on the top..if you mean the pits on the face, those are normal for hippo tangs..

 

[NaH2O]

*moved to the fish discussion forum*

 

[leebca]

Thanks Nikki! I thought I was losing it! I was checking two or three times a day and suddenly see this thread and wonder how I had missed it!

dragonchick_7,

Sorry to hear of the problems. I hope you have properly diagnosed the problem. The choice of performing a copper treatment should be a 'last resort' because it is a serious poison to marine life. Please read this:
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ment/18915-copper-treatment-use-problems.html

CopperSafe is one of the worst copper medications for saltwater fish on the market. This opinion is shared by many advanced aquarists and Dr. Terry Bartelme.

That grouping of fish in your aquarium is very sensitive to copper. It appears that your fish are dieing from copper poisoning. This is either the choice of medication, the concentration, the test kit being used to analyze the copper or any combination of these. I know of only one absolutely safe way of treating Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and Marine Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum) with copper in these types of sensitive fishes. So, I can only recommend the following:

1. Stop the copper treatment. Obtain the Salifert Copper Test kit.
2. Do a massive water change with absolutely high quality water.
3. Add activated carbon onto the QT and treat with this for 3 whole days.
4. Remove the carbon.
5. Treat with Cupramine, controlling the copper at the 0.5 ppm reading on the Salifert Copper Test kit. Do not allow the copper reading to go below 0.3 nor above 0.6 for two weeks.

Do 1. thru 3. on day 1. Do 4. to 5. on day 3.

Be sure the test kit has not expired or is close to its expiration date.

When a fish is attacked by a poison, many opportunistic microbes set in to finish off the fish (if the poison doesn't do it fast enough). The cloudy eyes was the end of the line of the fish. No antibiotic will help a poisoned fish and it was too late to save the poisoned fish from secondary infections. Skip the antibiotics and dips until 1. thru 5. are completed.

I'm afraid you may still loose some fish to the poisoning. :evil:

We're here to help!

 

[dragonchick_7]

Thanks for the input everybody! I was thinking it was time to stop the copper, but everyone else was telling me they should be in it for a month. I'm going to do a massive water change tonight and I'll put the carbon in. Hopefully things will level out. The fish look great, and it's a relief to know that the pits on the face are normal, I just never noticed them before (Thanks RonJ!) I thought I would mention that I did a freshwater dip last night before I could get on here, and there were about 10 little brownish/black 'things' that fell off the tang. I didn't have a microscope, and they were quite small, so I don't even know what they were. Anyway, both fish seem to be happy. I'm sure they'll be much happier when the water changes are done!
Thanks again!

 

[ronj]

check out this site..see if the "black things" are turbellarium worms.
http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/blackich.html

 

[leebca]

Sorry for an error. But in post #13 I wrote "Dr. Terry Bartelme" It should be "Terry D. Bartelme."

 

[jakleen]

i agree with RONJ. you can also use selcon. you can soak pellets(spirulina),if your fish eat pellets ,couple of minutes before feeding ,or you can soak frozen foods overnight. i would do this for a while,although it leaves a film on the water surface,but you do small water change daily anyway. after the fish is recovered well ,i will decrase selacon soaked food 1-2 times a week i also everyday (religiously)hang a big sheet of seaweed for my tang. never had any problem with my tangs ,as long as i remmeber. my triggers and cube fish eat the seaweed sheet too. good luck . jakleen

 

[dragonchick_7]

Just to update everybody:
I know I'm going to get yelled at by many, many people over this one... The QT had been up and running for just over a month, and the tang and clownfish were doing great. I had biological bead-things in the tank, and I had gradually removed the copper and added activated carbon. They were both happy and healthy-looking, as was the reef tank. I needed to take down the QT and the fish seemed ready, I acclimated the fish and put them back in the tank. The tang was gone the next morning, and the clownfish had ick again. I set up the QT again just to get him out of there. I spoke to many reef-tank owners and satwater fich store owners, and confirmed that copper is widley used and safe for the treatment of ick and other paracites as long as the copper levels do not get too high. I have been treating the clownfish with copper for over a week, now and he seems to be doing great! I am using coral vital in the reef tank to kill off any ick in the substrate and to keep the corals healthy. I'm planning to put the clownfish back in the reef tank in about 3 weeks, if not longer.
I have to say, after all this I think I'll stick with the reef tank and my clownfish.. No more fish for me for a long while.........
OK, I'm done updating... Let the scolding begin.

 

[LakeEd]

It doesn't sound like you need a scolding... you already know the "best" way to add fish, by using a QT. Everyone has tried, at one point or the other, to work around what is probably "best". We're only human.

 

[leebca]

Ed says it very well!