Need help with odd bleaching events.

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Travis

SPS Obsessed
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
132
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
I made a lot of changes to my tank recently and my corals are starting to show the effects. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions on helping the zooxanthellae populations recover in the affected corals.

Here are some of the STUPID things I've done over the past few months:
1)About 5 months ago I changed from the RC salt I was running for the past year to Seachem. Went through 450 gallons of the Seachem. Then had to use a 200 gallon bucket of Oceanic during a time when I needed salt but didn't have money and had credit at the LFS but Oceanic is all they had. Then I had to use 2 160 gallon buckets of IO to correct the high magnesium levels I had after using the bucket of Oceanic (Oceanic tested at 1606 Mg). Then, Seachem sent me 450 gallons of salt to rectify the issues I had with their inconsistent batches (I posted about that in this thread). So now I'm back to the Seachem and have gone through about 400 gallons of it since I had to use the IO. So that is about 4 different salts that have gone through my tank in the past 6 months.
2)Increased my MH photoperiod 1 hour per week to 11 hours from 8. After a lot of brainstorming, I think this may be the main culprit.
3)Accidetally added too much of a DIY Mg additive a few months ago. I was running at around 1120 and ended up around 1560 which took several weeks of 30% weekly WC's to get down.
4)I was going to start ZEOvit and then backed out. In preparation for ZEOvit, I had lowered my alk from 9.5 to 7.5 over a couple weeks.

I think that sums up the major changes I've made over the past few months. I know, I know, it was stupid and I'm paying the price now. I've kept sps for several years now and know they need stability but just got the urge to push things to the next level and changed a few too much in a short period of time. Now I'm paying for it with several pieces headed downhill.

Here is what I did/have done/am doing:
1)Cut each MH bulb down to 4 hours from 8 (has been brought down to 8 from 11 over the past few weeks). Cut actinics down from 12 hours to 10.
2)Slowly raised dKH to 10.0 from 7.5 over the past few weeks.
3)I always skim wet. Not wet skimmate, but truly "wet skimming". This is where no foam is able to form. The bubbles pop at the top of the riser tube throwing water droplets and solid matter into the collection cup. I dialed the skimmer back to dry for a couple weeks thinking I may have been overskimming but it didn't help.
4)I have been feeding more than usual lately. Actually, for probably the past 4-6 weeks. I have been mixing in a lot of GP's with the fish food to help directly feed the corals and add some nutrients to the water. I haven't really noticed any positive changes in the corals. What I did notice was that the PO4 went up to .20 (Hanna colorimeter) from around .06 and I was only able to keep it at .20 with 100 gallon (30%) weekly water changes. I currently have 20 blue/green chromis in quarantine, which will soon be added to the tank to increase the fish load and allow me to feed more fish food without having to feed other junk like GP's to get more food to the corals. Since I could not get the PO4 down I thought the recently elevated levels may have caused some negative changes in the corals so I started running some ROWAphos a few days ago to bring the levels back down. The ROWAphos truly is remarkable at doing what it is supposed to. In the first 24 hours alone, my PO4 went from .20 to .08. I am now on day 3 of the ROWAphos and PO4 is hovering around .03.

The bleaching events have been strange. They started about 4 weeks ago and always happen at different times on different corals. Some would happen overnight and some would slowly happen over a weeks time. Some of the corals then start getting really dangerously thin tissue. After a few weeks the tissue gets so thin that the coral eventually dies. Some of the bleached corals continue to exhibit normal polyp extension while others, the PE slowly gets less and less. With most of the corals, the bleaching could easily be taken the wrong way. In most of them, it is the zooxanthellae that was expelled but the photoprotective pigments remain. The end result is a coral that is really "popping" with color. But this is one of those cases where the excellent coloration is not indicitave of good health. A couple of the bleached corals do look really awesome, like they would glow in the dark... if only they would look like this and also be healthy. Also, the location in the tank has nothing to do with anything. Some of the bleached corals have been at the top in direct light, at the bottom in inderect light, and one was even positioned in a spot where it was shaded by rock and coral above it and still bleached. The bleaching has occurred in spots across the whole length of the tank, which eliminates a bad bulb being a possible factor.

So that is where things are now. Now that I have my Ca, alk, and Mg back where I want them, I am just going to leave things stable until the tank stabilizes and hopefully starts to turn around. I will leave the bulbs at 4 hours until some of the bleached corals start getting some decent zooxanthellae populations going again. If they don't start getting darker after another week or so I may even cut the bulbs down to 2 or even less hours.

How does cutting my photoperiod sound? Is 4 hours too little? What else can I do?
 
I am tagging along here. I am having a few problems with my SPS as well but have attributed it to unstable alkalinity which got down to 3 at one point. I run my MH 12 hours a day and have never thought that is too long so I am interested to see what people say here.

Honestly I think you have already answered most of your own question and know why you are having problems. Too much change in a short amount of time. I would personally stop changing things. In general people are very reactionary to problems in the tank and when something goes wrong we change 10 things to try and get it in spec. If your car was running bad and you changed the gas, induction system, engine, exhaust system and cooling system...you would probably have a sweet running car...that isn't true for a salt water tank.

Now that you have your water parameters in the spec you want then in. Just let the tank settle for a while. I personally think reducing the photoperiod even more is adding more stress. One thing I have noticed is that a coral can go from looking great and being healthy to very sick in about 1-2 days...but it takes about 1 month for that same coral to look good again after everything is back to normal.

Good luck
 
Sorry to hear about your dilemma Travis. Nine times out of 10 bleaching or the expulsion of zoox come from an event. There are a couple of scenarios in which the coral itself emits enzyme that causes the zoox to be expelled. One scenario is overheating, so any kind of temperatures like will cause this enzyme to be released. Once it is released the coral can be affected quickly or over the course of weeks.
The second scenario has two parts and mainly has to do with photo adaptation. When the coral receives light it uses it in a couple of different ways, one way as we know is photosynthesis, the balance of the light energy is admitted as heat which again brings us back the first scenario. As oxygen as a byproduct of photosynthesis the coral also must deal with this. A coral regulates the oxygen production by shutting down the photosynthetic reaction centers but in some cases when it becomes overwhelmed ( as sometimes happens when a lot more light is subtly given) in a situation like this oxygen radicals such as hydrogen peroxide can be formed within the coral, which is not a good thing. What the coral does then is released another enzyme that expels the zoox in hopes of ending the scenario.
Anyway there's a couple of possibilities of what could have happened. From the sounds of your posts you've done everything I can think of doing so now it's just a matter of keeping your parameters steady and allowing the corals to recover.


Good luck


Mike
 
Travis,
I think that the problem was caused by the lowering the Alk and the accidental raising of the Mg. Then throw in the elevated PO4 levels.
Building back up thinned out tissue on corals is the hardest thing to do in my opinion and will require stability and ideal water parameters.
I also think that you are on the right track with lowering the PO4. You may want to try lowering it using a bacteria driven method as well in conjunction with ROWAphos, like Vodka, Zeovit, or Prodibio.
I would try to get the Alk around 8-9dkh.
I think that 10dkh is too high and may slow recovery. Run GAC if your not already.
If you have red bugs this would be the time to treat. Your corals will have no chance of recovery in my opinion if you got them.
I don’t think you will see any benefit of lowering the MH period below three hours. I think that four to five hours of MH lighting is good.
Try adding an amino acid/vitamin supplement to your tank, and feed your fish well but don’t over feed.
Make sure that everything is receiving a good amount of indirect flow.
Keep up the water changes for the trace element but I would keep the volume down to 10% a week rather than say 20% ever two weeks.
I know that you are an advanced aquarist and far above my level and this is just all my opinion. Sorry for bouncing all over the place.
Good Luck,
David
 
I went and look at your web site nice tank.
Are you still running ozone? If so the bacteria methods I suggested will not work, or if you are running UV.
Mike brought up temp as a possible cause I also thought of this, daily small swings as you know won’t cause bleaching in most cases. But sort term temp increases may, like raising you temp from 80 to 85 in a week and then the daily temp swing of a few degrees. After looking at your site I noticed that you are using an Aqua Controler, is your temp correct?
 
Thanks guys.

mojo, That is some interesting stuff. I wasn't aware of either of those scenarios. In my case I would venture to guess it was more related to scenario 2 caused by better light penetration from my increased frequency of water changes and increased photoperiod.

diesel dave, I don't run O3 anymore and also don't use my Aquacontroller anymore after haveing hellish problems with the X-10's. I control my heaters and sump fans with a Ranco dual stage controller and my chiller is controlled with its own Ranco controller. The temp fluctuates from 77-79 daily.

I did find this last night:
AEFW%20on%20valida%204-7-06.jpg

There were 20-30 acro eating FW's on this coral and probably over 1000 eggs. I'm guessing the recent changes to the tank have stressed the corals allowing the FW's to take hold and multiply quickly. Unfortunately, I had to stress my corals out even more as I removed every acro from the tank and put it into quarantine where it will be treated with levamisole once a week for 4 weeks.
 
That is a nasty case of AFW's. I had them a couple years ago on a real nice milli. No one had any idea what those little eggs were, and why the tissue was receading daily from the base out. It was strange, once I got rid of that one coral I never saw them again.
 
Wow... that skeleton is green... It looks like it has a case of ostreobrium sp. algae on it.

-Josh-:cool:
 
stupid question...What is AFW?
also, is it certain that the change of lighting schedule is one of the cause of this problem? As i can see there are so many things that you did that could have affect the tank.
 
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