New Sump

[colin779]

So this weekend assuming i have my stand completed i will be moving everything from my 20g to a 29g and using the 20g as a sump.

I have an Eshopps pf-800 on the way (good for 800gph) and have purchased a Odyssea WP700 (700gph) for the return pump, or would a 500gph be better?

I am planning on using 3/4 (inside diameter) piping for the return plumbing.

The thing i am torn on is i want to have the return near the bottom of the tank with one outlet flowing across the back and one flowing towards the front of the tank, but i am not sure if i trust drilling a couple holes as a siphon break in case of a power loss or pump failure. Does anyone have any experience with this method?

The other option is just to have the return near the top of the tank, but it seems to me it would be more effective at the bottom.

I also plan on have a koralia hydor #1 and #2 in the tank for more flow in the tank.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance

Colin.

 

[colin779]

The sump will also be broken up into sections, the first where water enters from the tank (skimmer and heater will be here), the second a small fuge, and the third and largest where the return pump will be located.

 

[Krish]

Yea, it's a chance you'll have to decide if you want to take. Typically, you want your return nozzle close to the water's surface in the event the hole you drill for the "siphon break" doesn't break the siphon, your nozzle head will be right there at the surface and will break it for you once exposed to air. With the return nozzle to the bottom of the tank, if the hole to break the siphon fails, you will empty your entire tank on the floor until the head of the return nozzle is exposed to air. Some people use check valves to prevent back flow, but have heard many stories of them failing as well. If it were me personally, I wouldn't take the chance and just put the return nozzle to the top and find other means of adding flow down low where you want it. You can make up your own closed loop over the top of the tank if you don't want to drill the tank to add flow that way (which there wouldn't be a concern where the nozzles are placed as it will be a closed system) or you can add powerheads. Just a few thoughts...

 

[Myteemouse]

WELL said krish, your always quicker than me on these things!

 

[colin779]

Thank you,

What do you think of the idea of having one return near the waters surface in the form of a T and then have the pipe continuing down to the bottom with one return there? Or would it not be effective because most of the water would exit through the higher return? I like the idea off one at the bottom of the tank but there is also no point in doing it if it is not going to be effective.

Sorry so many questions, I'm just trying not to mess up the first time i do this to badly....

 

[Krish]

WELL said krish, your always quicker than me on these things!

LOL! I use to be much faster :lol:

Thank you,

What do you think of the idea of having one return near the waters surface in the form of a T and then have the pipe continuing down to the bottom with one return there? Or would it not be effective because most of the water would exit through the higher return? I like the idea off one at the bottom of the tank but there is also no point in doing it if it is not going to be effective.

Sorry so many questions, I'm just trying not to mess up the first time i do this to badly....

Well, if you are going with a 700 gph return, splitting it will cut down the flow out of each nozzle quite a bit. In addition, depending on which brand of pump you are using, the higher you have to pump the water to reach the tank and the more bends you have in the line (ie elbows if you have to use any), the less flow you will get out of each nozzle. 350 gph out of each nozzle never really did much for me personally. I usually like to have atleast 500-600gph out of each of my nozzles at the very least, but I do get a bit carried away sometimes However, the fact that your tank will only be a 29 gal means that you don't have that much area to cover so I'd say if you want to give it a shot, try it out as the parts you'd need to split the flow into 2 outputs won't cost much at all. If you aren't happy with it, then just switch it to the single nozzle. Also, if you are concerned about one nozzle putting out a bit more than the other, just place a ball valve inline of each output and use that to control how much flow comes out of each.

Here is what actual 700-750 gph looks like coming out of an output. I had "Y" adaptors on each output in this picture, but eventually went back to just single straight nozzles. I had about 5,000 gph of flow in my 38 gal cube. Some might think overkill, but the tank loved it

 

[Myteemouse]

is that 700 all together or 700 each nozzel???

 

[colin779]

I may just do that and you're correct, the parts are cheap enough that if i don't like it i can always just take it off.

I'll give it a go, i will have the two koralia's in there as well so that will assist enough i think, if not ill take a mulligan.

Thanks very much for the help.

I will take some pictures and let you know how it works out.

 

[Krish]

is that 700 all together or 700 each nozzel???

Sorry for the typo on my last post. The tank actually had about 4,000 gph of flow (in the 38gal) not about 5,000 gph, and yes, it was about 700 gph per output. I had 4 outputs in the tank (2 up top and 2 down low) which ran off of 2 seperate closed loops (each with it's own pump putting out 1506 gph of flow). The pumps sat right behind the backwall of the tank so it was only really a matter of inches in plumbing so not much headloss, but I did have a few bends so I said about 700 gph rather than 750. I also had a return pump rated at 950gph

 

[Krish]

I may just do that and you're correct, the parts are cheap enough that if i don't like it i can always just take it off.

I'll give it a go, i will have the two koralia's in there as well so that will assist enough i think, if not ill take a mulligan.

Thanks very much for the help.

I will take some pictures and let you know how it works out.

Sounds good! Good luck with it

 

[boosted306]

Nice I will be glad when I pinpoint my setup. Congrats!

 

[slim_jim989]

i have my closed loop setup up top and i moved my maxijet 1200 to the bottom and i have it where the flow is just above the sand bed so it moves debris down there. and ill be drilling my bulkhead holes towards the top more and have my return (not decided on one or two yet) come out the top and be pointing down. I did my CL system without drilling holes it came out pretty nice for now lol

 

[colin779]

i have my closed loop setup up top and i moved my maxijet 1200 to the bottom and i have it where the flow is just above the sand bed so it moves debris down there. and ill be drilling my bulkhead holes towards the top more and have my return (not decided on one or two yet) come out the top and be pointing down. I did my CL system without drilling holes it came out pretty nice for now lol

Do you have any pictures of it??

 

[Krish]

Here is one of my old attempts at a closed loop on my 75gal over the top of the tank. I did things a little differently that other's like made a cover to hide the suction in the tank etc, but same general priciple. You can just browse through the pics there to see what I ended up doing. Also, there is a really neat write up and illustration over at Melev's reef where he did one over the tank using a SCWD.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13588&highlight=diy+closed+loop

 

[slim_jim989]

when i get off work ill take some pictures for ya, its nothing fancy but i did it on a budget so i think i did pretty good.

 

[colin779]

thanks krish, that looks pretty good.

thank you too slim jim, believe me, my whole tank is on a budget.. haha

 

[colin779]

This is what i have so far, nothing is in place yet so i can make adjustments. Do you guys think i can take a little space from the return pump for more of a fuge, or would you just leave it as is?

[/IMG]

 

[Krish]

Looks pretty good! You could probably get away with a little less space in the return chamber if you like to make the fuge bigger. One thing to keep in mind is you don't want to set the return chamber water level too high as you will have some back siphon when the return pump's power is cut so you will need to have sufficient room for the back flow of water until the siphon breaks.

 

[colin779]

Gotcha, i suppose my last question for you then would be is a fuge that size going to help out (it is currently just over 3 gallons)? Or does it actually need to be bigger? I'm more comfortable leaving it how it is in the picture, but if i need to lose a 1/2" or 1" for the sake of the fuge then i can do that.

 

[slim_jim989]

well hey i just got home from work so heres those pictures. sorry about the angles didnt feel like editing them haha