Newcomer to site & to aquariums

[tropicguy]

Hi - well i am brand new and have been reading this site and others to try and learn as much as I can before I dive in so to speak. I really like this site.
My wife and I are wanting to start a reef tank (probably around 70gal) with perhaps 5-6 fish, some crabs, snails, shrimp, maybe soft coral.
Not knowing much I am wondering what the advantages of buying a tank predrilled with exit and return as regards to plumbing issues. It appears they have the advantage of less possibility of floods? Not sure why, but I am not a plumber.
- is it advantageous to have a skimmer? - it has been suggested to me that this is not necessary until the tank is 6 months old or so.

I am sure I will have a billion other questions, but need to start somewhere. I will keep reading too!

thanks

 

[Kensn]

I am sure others will respond, but for good water quality, you want to skim the surface of the tank water, for this a tank with a built in overflow is great. If it is a glass tank, then definitly go with an internal overflow with predrilled drains. If you want to go acrylic, get built in overflows, and then drill your own drains.

Having an overflow, going to a sump, and then returning to the tank is really the best bet. The sump is a great place for hardware for heaters, skimmers and the like.

As far as the skimmer goes, I would run it from day 1, I believe it is essential.

Kind of vague I know, but there are so many ways to do things, really need to know what you would like to have in the end.

Gosh where are my manners.....

Welcome, I know you will be able to get all your questions answered here. There is just a great wealth of knowledge and friendly folks here!!!

 

[tropicguy]

Thanks - but I guess my question is a little vague. I understand the advantages of the sump, my question is more related to flooding etc (I am trying to minimize this from day one!) Why is the predrilled glass tank more "safe" than a overflow box on the back of your main tank down to the sump? Or is it?

Thanks again

 

[wrightme43]

WELCOME WELCOME Glad you are here. This is a great place with great people. Ken has given you great advice. Take a look around. When you see something you like just ask how it was done. Everyone here shares info, and it has saved many including me much money, time, heartache and just make this a better hobby. Please keep coming back. Steve

 

[Kensn]

I don't think a predrilled glass tank is any safer than an overflow box. If you are talking a hang on overflow box, they will only siphon to the point where they can skim the surface, just an inch or two. In either case I guess the only thing to make sure is that the sump you use will contain the water that will siphon back into the tank if the return pump fails.

 

[tropicguy]

Okay, so the advantage of a predrilled tank is it makes the plumbing easier? Is that worth the extra money?
Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I don't know.

thanks

 

[Kensn]

There are no dumb questions here!!! If you consider the price of a good external overflow, it offsets the internal quite a bit. I think the internal overflows are excellent, and you don't have to worry about breaking a siphon like a hang on one, even though they are pretty reliable now. An internal takes up a small amount of real estate in the tank, but I think it is more visualy appealing.

I also think it does make it a little easier to plumb.

I think you have some excellent questions, keep them coming, and wait for others to chime in. It is so important to get a good plan before you buy anything, make sure you get it as close to right the first time that you can...

 

[tropicguy]

'k thanks for your help. Actually makes sense. Soooooo ..... closed loop system. I assume that means that your overflow (internal!) down to your sump, then back up to your main tank has no chance to allow air in - that is closed loop? Also is there a preference generally re return pumps being submersible or external?

thanks

 

[Kensn]

Nope, a true closed loop takes water from the tank to a pump and back into the tank, no overflow or sump involved. Two different animals. An overflow is used to get water to a sump and back up. A closed loop takes water from below the surface level to a pump and back to the tank below the surface level, with no openings. If you search on this site I am sure you will find some pics to help you visualize this.

As far as pumps go, submersible pumps can add heat to the water, external is a little trickier to plumb, but not much. It depends on the amount of room you have. I think external are the way to go.

I found this pic showing a tank with 2 closed loops.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2778

 

[sryder]

tropic welcome to rf. the best advice i can give is to take your time. do some research here and decide what it is and will be down the road that you are interested in keeping. I believe most people keep sumps to hide most of thier equipment and to also add water volume to thier tanks. the more water the less chance of quick imbalance swings. if you are going to keep corals than you will probably start off with some live rock in your system. imo it is better to get uncured live rock and cure it in your newly established tank. to do this you will have to have a protien skimmer to remove the die off from the rock. ken hit it on the head when talking about the overflows. it doesnt matter which one you use as long as you keep an eye on your water levels. sometimes an external can lose its prime and you can pump the contents of your sump back into your main tank. if your sump has more water than your tank can handle you can flood. with an internal the amount of water you put into the tank is what is removed through the overflows. if your sump is kept at appropriate levels then you will not flood the sump. closed loops are mainly for water circulation. one it helps move detritus from the bottom of the tank and keeps it in suspension for your filtration to pick up. it also is a means of delivering food supplies to your animals. its a great idea to do it right from the get go if your budget allows for the extra pump. if it does not then there is also other optins such as powerheads, tunzes and the like. there is alot to be decided when starting out. what you want to keep being the main one. then there is fltration, lighting, rock, livestock,flow (closed loops) etc.... do some home work and ask all you can. there is alot of good aquarists here and you will get plenty of answers. good luck and enjoy this great hobby...steve

 

[tropicguy]

Steve - thanks, I agree with all you said, that's why I am here asking questions. Looking at these closed loops systems I have a question. It "appears" to my eye that they are more unsightly than a couple of powerheads. From what little I have seen of pics here you have an awful lot of PVC tubing all over the place. Is that correct?

thanks

 

[Kensn]

There is more of the eyesore outside of the tank, but leaves the tank itself uncluttered. Powerheads dangeling in the tank is more unsightly, than pvc piping that you don't see behind the tank. With a clever stand design, or modifications to a standard stand, the piping can be easy to hide. You can get a lot of movement in the tank with a closed loop, more than your average PH, but there are PH designed for movement like Tunze, but they are pricey. I think the less you can have in the main tank the better, but again this all is relevent to what you are looking for in a tank as far as stocking goes. Flow, tank turnover rate, lighting and other equipment should all revolve around what you are looking to keep.

Also keep in mind, electrical consumption, look at the power needed to run 3-4 ph's compared to one larger pump on a closed loop.

I for example do not run a closed loop. I have an internal overflow, sump and return lies going to seaswirls for random water movement. My tank is not set up for a killer sps tank, but I do have a few, but mostly softies and LPS. Do I wish I would of done a closed loop....sometimes....

 

[tropicguy]

ahh I understand now. I was looking at pics of closed loop systems that were "over the back" on tanks not drilled. Sometimes takes me a few minutes...!
I agree the less in the tank the better. I'm thinking it would be a great idea IF you had access to the back of the tank in case of problems. I won't have that luxury where we want to put it.

thanks again for all the good info

 

[sryder]

tropic, some people also run closed loops with ball valves and timers.power heads and or tunzes can also be placed on timers. this gives the tanks alternating currents instead of say a powerhead with a strait or direct constant stream. which ever way you decide think about current. ken mentioned seaswirls which is another way of moving the water in an indirect curnt. steve

 

[Kensn]

If you were going to do a closed loop, then I would definitly want to have access to the plumbing on the back of the tank. One of the reasons I didn't do a closed loop at the time was I wanted all my plumbing in the stand. I didn't have enough area for 2 drains and 2 returns in my overflow, and didnt want to drill the bottom of the tank, exect for the overflow region. I was going to pull water from inside the tank at the walls of the overflow, and return up through the overflow out the walss of the overflow...wow a picture would of been great here.....But again, not enough room...

 

[tropicguy]

Steve - yep I understand, I like the idea of eliminating equipment from the main tank for estetic purposes, but not sure I want to leave (a foot or two?) at the back of the tank for access in case or problems. All a matter of compromise I guess.

thanks

 

[tropicguy]

Ken - I agree- thanks for all the replies.

John

 

[Kensn]

My pleasure, you are doing the very best thing you can do, read, read and read some more. I little time invested now will save you headaches, and cash in the long run. Hope I shed a little light on your questions, and I hope I can some more...

Here is some more reading for ya, Marc was on here recently, and remined me he has an excellent site with some good info.

http://www.melevsreef.com/

 

[Krish]

Welcome, glad you're here. This is truely a great place to hang out and get all your questions answered. I see a few of the guys have helped you out already and pointed you in the right direction. Marc at melevsreef really has some good ideas and you should really check out his site Ken provided for you. IMO, if I could do it all over I would get an acryli tank because you can pretty much drill it wherever you want or need flow. However, people get by just fine with regular glass tanks by hiding the plumbing good behind rocks or simply just setting them up neatly. There is no limits to what you can do. One thing, which is very important from what I have learned from my own personal experience is that flow is very important. And it's not really how much flow you have, but how it is utilized. You could have 3000 gph flowing in your tank and not benefiting you any if it is not correctly placed. So, I would say continue looking around and asking questions because you don't want to regret it later like I did and have to start over. Once again, Welcome to RF!

 

[tropicguy]

Thanks - at this time I am leaning to a reef ready tank (not sure if glass or acrylic) but not a closed loop system as I just don't have room behind the stand. I guess I will have to hide the powerheads as best I can.
It's nice to get all this help!

John