opinions on prioritizing

[Xtremedave67]

We jumped in this hobby a little unprepared and unaware of many aspects of the hobby today ( flirted with a 15G reef years ago)

so far I am amazed by the technical aspects and fun this hoby can be..and most amazed by this forums community.

anyway....now I am discovering that to sustain a reef successfully it requires much more than I realized, testing accessories, monitoring equipement,lighting,skimmers yadda yadda yadda

so we are building our small set up a step at a time to fit our fun funds schedule.
I was intending to get HQI lighting this weekend, so we can fiannly add corals and sustain high light demand livestock.
now learning that water parameters are key and a pretty big chuck of change to inventory all the testing, monitoring equipement.

I am wondering if changing gears would be smart..and not buy lights now and livestock, but spend the moneys on these accesories 1st????

(BUT my patience is a limiting factor, I want to see candy in the tank LOL)

I am hearing that PH monitor, refractometer are important....as well as parameter testing etc...

If I get lights and livestock will I regret not having the other tools 1st?

 

[returnofsid]

pH Monitors are not necessary, to sustain a successful reef tank. Refractometers are "almost" necessary, though a swing arm hydrometer will work. An RO/DI unit is a necessity, IMO. A quality Skimmer is also very important, though a reef tank can be ran without one. Without a skimmer, a tank will require larger water changes, more often. It'll usually also require a lower bio-load and more careful feedings.

As for test kits, once a tank has cycled, the test kits you really need are:
Nitrates
Phosphates
Calcium
Alkalinity
Magnesium
pH

If you purchase Salifert or Elos, each of these kits will be individual, but more accurate than the "All in one" kits. Each of these will also last you approximately a year, if you test once a week.

A successful reef tank can be ran with an adequate amount of quality live rock, good, quality flow and a protein skimmer. No other mechanical filtration is needed. A refugium will help out A LOT, as a place to:

1. grow macro algae, for nitrate reduction
2. A "refuge" for pods to safely reproduce, without the thread of predation.
3. Add extra water volumn.
4. Hide most of your equipment.

Also, Metal Halide lighting is far from "necessary" unless you're running a very deep tank and growing the highest light demanding SPS, near the bottom of this deep tank.

T5HO will be more than adequate to grow anything you want, as long as it's a quality fixture, with adequate coverage (enough bulbs to cover the tank,) with individually contoured reflectors, or individual reflectors, and NOT a parabolic reflector.

 

[jrgilles]

Exactly what sid said.

He didn't mention a sump tank though, which while not absolutely necessary, will improve the looks of your tank. You can do these yourself pretty cheap. It will get all the equipment (heaters, skimmer, etc.) out of the display and also allow you to put in a better quality protein skimmer, without filling your display tank with microbubbles.

Fuge really helps keep things in check, and makes things easier in the long run I think.

 

[Xtremedave67]

unfortunately this tank wont allow a sump, did put heater in fuge

I am stuck with a HOB skimmer with this tank in present location.

I am still wondering if I should Nix lighting for testing accessories, RO ( currently stealling RO from a friend or grocery store) and stuff, or if I can get lighting and the rest can wait as budget allows???

 

[Xtremedave67]

its tough to NOT add corals, LOL I want to see cool colorful stuff LOL

 

[jrgilles]

Oh, woops. wasn't paying attention to who started this thread. I am aware you have a fuge, hah.

Listen to sid, he knows what he's talking about

 

[keep_evolving]

Dunno if you've heard this yet, but there's an old saying about this hobby I am taking to heart as I venture into it:

“Only bad things happen fast in this hobby.”

Resist the urge to start throwing livestock into your tank until it's the best possible home for them, IMO. I've also heard that this hobby is more about keeping water than it is keeping fish. Fish can tolerate relatively nasty water compared to corals. Maybe you could get your testing equipment and still afford to throw a small fish in there to start the nitrogen cycle (if you haven't already). Then you can at least see something colorful moving around in there!

 

[returnofsid]

Please, do NOT ever use a fish to cycle your tank. There are several ways, that are just as effective, and just as timely, that do not cause stress or death to fish.

 

[holdendaniel]

did you hav a wipe dave? i thought your tank was up and going already

 

[Xtremedave67]

tank is 8 weeks and cycled, cpl fish in it, Nope I wont toss fish galore in it and kill anything LOL

yes we want to do it right, and patience isnt easy for me, but I know I wont venture where I havent informed myself about.

will definately start at novice level any livestock and advance as my knowledge and experience advances.
I certainly wont try the corals that many of you folks have learned to sustain with the advanced equipment and strict parameters.

 

[returnofsid]

Even the "advanced" corals can be sustained and they will thrive, without most of the "advanced equipment" that a lot of people use. As long as you can meet their lighting, flow and water parameter requirements, they'll thrive.

For instance, Acropora species of corals are among the most high light demanding. They'll grow just fine under T5HO or Metal Halides. Having 400 watts of MH lighting, isn't required for anything. 250W MH lighting is great, as is T5HO. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't grow Acropora under T5HO lighting. However, also don't fall into the myth that T5HO is less expensive to operate. It really isn't that less expensive at all. A watt is a watt, whether it's T5HO or MH. 2X250MH=500 watts. Over a 4' tank, depending on size, front to back, 6X54watt T5HO would light the same area as 2X250MH, but would be a total of 324 watts. In this case, it would be less expensive to operate. However, if you were to add 2 more T5HO, you're now at 432 watts, almost the same as 2X250 MH. Take my tank, for instance, I used to have a 75, lit by 6X54T5s. I grew SPS like crazy. Now I have a 200 Deep Dimension. To get adequate coverage, of the 36" front to back, I now use 10X54 T5. So, I'm running 540 watts over the same area that I could probably light with 2X250 MH. However, it is a more efficient light and runs much cooler, so the need for a chiller isn't as necessary. I can place my hand on my bulbs, after they've been on for several hours. They're "warm," but not hot. On the other hand, I probably need to run a longer light cycle than if I were running 2X250MH, so lights are on longer.

Acropora need good water quality and parameters. Water quality can be met with frequent water changes. Water parameters can also be met with frequent water changes, until you have such a high population of stony corals, that the frequent water changes don't keep up with the demand for Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium. At this point, a lot of people use Calcium Reactors or Kalkwasser stirrers, or a combination of both. However, neither are necessary. You can meet the demands, very inexpensively, with dosing. You can dose Kalk, at night, as part of your top off regime. You can dose Calcium, Alk and Magnesium, daily or weekly. You don't have to buy expensive, bottled supplements either. You can make your own supplements, for the above 3, using easy to find ingredients. Randy's Recipe is in my signature, along with a great Chemistry Calculator, to help you determine your supplemental needs.

 

[keep_evolving]

Please, do NOT ever use a fish to cycle your tank. There are several ways, that are just as effective, and just as timely, that do not cause stress or death to fish.

Aaaand this is why I don't even have a tank yet. I was under the impression that the fish survived. Of course I will be doing a lot more research on all this stuff!

 

[psb]

Hi Dave, I understand your frustration and impatience.

I am a couple of years ahead of you but I had many of the same questions and propblems. I also had a limited budget. Once I found corals after i had a few fish I bought a coral withour really knowing and they unfortunately died. I made a vow to not kill anything else yet I still wanted corals and I didnt have the money for everything. So I went with soft corals which are much less demanding for light and in many cases but not all, more forgiving of changes in parameters. I learned about keeping water. And really learned what i needed in terms of equiptment and slowly bought things.


So i have a decent softies tank and I am now just get getting going on sps and lps. So I started with one encrusting Montipora frag and it grew and I kept it for 3 or 4 months and then i got a candy cane and it is growing then i got a trumpet and another montipora frag. Then an acan and then an acro frag. And everyone is happy.

But when i had the softies i didnt have money. I didnt have a skimmer or testing kits or a sump or fuge, etc. I used plant lights and clip on fixtures and did water changes and as quickly as a could i bought things on sale or craigslist and read like crazy and then I made a plan and slowly got there. So I have been doing my sps and lps frags for 6 months or so on one half the tanks and softies on the lower light end and everyone is growing. So now that i have caught the sps and lps fever and I can do it with the equiptment i got I am ready to grow a nice reef.

For me softies was the answer for my coral fix and lack of money, equiptment and knowledge.

 

[khaosinc]

I agree with good testing equipment and a refractometer. Although I'm a little hypocritical as I couldn't actually tell you the last time I checked anything besides salinity. A decent RoDI unit is also really nice to have. Be amazed how fast it will pay for itself, especially when you need to do a water change in a crisis at 2 am. Having everything in place as far as equipment is nice before you dive in, but I also know how hard it is. If you want a 'starter' coral to see how everything is working I have a mess of the little brown palys that glow green under actinic light. Keep them away from the rest of your rocks and when you get in to nicer corals you can give them to someone starting else starting up.

 

[Faciosity]

I'm proof that it can be done without all those fancy things, but I still don't advise it. I have a 75 and a 10 gallon running very successfully with no skimmers, reactors, or even ro unit. I use conditioned tap water, lots of flow and circulation, and regular water changes. However, I have been fighting a battle I can't win with algae due to the non filtered water and lack of other proper equipment. I have at least $1500 worth of coral that are all growing well and looking spectacular, but it's been a tough journey.

 

[Faciosity]

And by the way, I do test for things like salinity, ph, alkalinity, etc. and you should always have proper test kits to help identify problems quickly.

 

[lvsuckerfish]

anything can be done in this hobby there is no right nor wrong way! but there is a easy and a hard way thats for sure Sid pretty much hit the nail on the head. I would go with equipment first then live stock live stock will always be around the local area equipment I would purchase as a plan to go bigger sooner or later. as most of us have. and for a 15 gallon and a MH which IMO is over kill you can run t5s over that and get great results single or molded reflectors it is a small tank both fixtures will work great. But an ATO will be a good item to buy as the water will evap and what are small changes in a small tank are really big changes to the small tank If that makes sense! But you can get alot of movement in there with lower light demanding corals zoas palys leathers xzenia those are lower light lovers. and will be ok in there. skimmers, PH, lighting and water quality are all IMO must haves. and can save headaches later on.

 

[Xtremedave67]

Thanks folks, lvsuckerfish LOL the 15 was a flirt with the sw hobby years ago, I was far from informed with that attempt then, now I am informing myself LOL
currently we have a 44G corner tank.
we haev basically considered this our intro to the reefing hobby tank.....so we can learn and gain experience.
tis my plan to prepare for one of those amazing bigger builds in a couple years. so meanwhile....I get to bug the hell out of you folks with my endless questions

 

[thatguy559]

unfortunately this tank wont allow a sump, did put heater in fuge

you fuge is 10g correct? whats the wattage on the heater and the flow rate through the fuge? kinda curious as to what the temp is in the fuge vs the tank?

 

[Xtremedave67]

temp in Fuge has been 78-79, flow I estimate at about 250-275GPH