PH Problems in Qt tank

[ronj]

Boomer, i'm having chronic ph problems in my qt tank...i have had this tank up and running for months(30g)..the salinity has been kept at 1.009-1.011...i do 1-2 water changes a week..i have a Penguin 330 power filter and i have 2 powerheads for water movement in the tank..i also have a small skimmer on the tank..the ph seems to stay at 7.8-7.9.......i have gotten it back up,only to have it go straight back down..to get it up, i use Kent Superbuffer...any thoughts???????

 

[james734]

I know this is directed at Boomer, But what's the Alk @.

 

[ronj]

i'm not sure James..my test kit is hard to read..i use test strips...the scale on them leaves a big gap between 2 colors......i don't add any supplements or calcium to the tank..i would think the water changes would correct the problem, but they don't....i know i said Boomer, but any help is appreciated

 

[Ed Hahn]

My first Queston is..
1. Is there a cover on the tank? Excessive CO2 drives the Ph down.

 

[ronj]

i actually meant to post that...i have a glass cover, but only about 3-4 inches of the top are covered .....the rest is open...the glass over it is just big enough to keep water from splashing the lights..the front of the tank is uncovered and part of the back is open

 

[steve-s]

Ron, this is with the hyposalinity tanks yes? With hyposalinity the chemistry becomes diluted. One of the first steps in determining a pH problem is an accurate reading for alkalinity in which test strips are about as inaccurate as they come. I would really urge you to get a better titration kit like Salifert. This is probably a good part of your problem. Also be sure you do not test RO/DI water for alkalinity, the reading will be false. Just assume it's low and buffer accordingly unless adding some amount of salt. Retest and adjust as needed before using the water.

A low alkalinity will mean a less stable pH. Higher alks reduce the likelihood of large pH shifts. If the alkalinity is low, buffering and good aeration of the tank, uncovered in a well ventilated room will fix the issue. If the alkalinity is 3.0-3.5 mEq/l, the problem is not chemical. More often that not, pH problems can rarely be solved chemically with the one exception being hyposalinity.

Cheers
Steve

 

[ronj]

yes, it is my hypo tank....i will try to find a Salifert kit today

 

[Boomer]

Ron you are using a buffer to raise that pH and that is a no-no, especially super buffer or baking soda. Go get some SeaChem Labs Marine Buffer ( 8.3) and add 1/2 according to instructions and check pH. The pH will stay at 8.3, once you get it there with this buffer. Try not to think of this as some normal buffer, it is far from it. It is a QT tank so this stuff is Ok to use.

With that pH and that salintiy you have lots of CO2. You have already state you are using a buffer, so I doubt it is Alk. So the pH is not low due to no or little Alk but CO2.

There is no probelm keeping up the pH in a hypo tank. It is not much different than a African Chiclid tank and guys do it all the time. And many use SeaChem Labs Marine Buffer.

You can also drip in kalk, it will eat up the CO2, raise the pH and the Alk.

That skimmer is also probably driving in more CO2. pH is a function of Alk and CO2. And low salinty has more CO2 than higher salinity and it will also take up CO2 more quickly. And lower salinity usually has less Alk. Hypo chemsitry is not the same as NSW, it is between NSW and FW in general.

 

[Bomber]

Boom, we've always used baking soda and "baked" baking soda. 6 to1

Marine Buffer is cheap, is it that much better??

Our saltwater comes out about 7.7. If Marine Buffer is better, would it be cost effective to raise the alk with the baking soda combo, then use less Marine Buffer to hold it there.

 

[Boomer]

Jer

For FOT or FOLR yes it is better but not for a reef tank, where it will skew problems when tring to deal with Ca++ and Mg++ additions

The issue with the BBS & BS is that it doe not hold pH very well, although it is better than just BS.

Yes you could do that if you wish. I used on MB only. It is so good that there is no need to measure the pH it is always 8.3 and maybe dose once every 2 wks. Try it and find out, you will see what I mean. It is also a good indicator for water changes based on how fast it goes into solution when added.

 

[Bomber]

but you know I'm reverse engineering it.

I'll be treating 200gals of canal water every couple of days.

I'm thinking for the MB to work, it has to work on alk first. Probably borate, right?

If I bumped the alk/carbon up with BS/BBS first, would it take less MB??

Then there's the whole borate/UV thing again. Is that going to cause a problem?

 

[Boomer]

Yup, it has borate. It is Ca++, Mg++, Na+, K+ salts of carbonate, bicarbonate and borate, with I think a touch of Cl-

would it take less MB??

Yes. 1 level tsps / 20 gal.and it will last longer.

Then there's the whole borate/UV thing again. Is that going to cause a problem?

Not if you treat the water after it runs through the UV, where is when I would treat it. I would never add sup's before any kind of filtration.

I hope it is not to late but after you drained those tanks did you get out a garden hose and flush then all out with FW. i.e walls, bottom, etc. ? And did you flush the lines, if there are any, between the sock and tanks ? That is all you need is 1 brook sitting in the line to the tanks

 

[Bomber]

Did I flush or what?? Let's just say I'm blonder than normal right now- clorox too.

So bump the alk up with Arm and Hammer, then pH fix with less of the MB.

I can't treat 'after' the UV, the whole system is recirculating through it 24/7.

 

[Boomer]

I told you not to get any on you. Now I'm going to have to put up with blondes have more fun

OK that sounds good then

 

[Bomber]

Old blondes just have fun slower.

 

[Boomer]

Well then just make sure when you are tying on your PC that you do not use "White-Out" on the scrren to correct spelling errors

 

[Maxx]

Boom, we've always used baking soda and "baked" baking soda. 6 to1

Marine Buffer is cheap, is it that much better??

Our saltwater comes out about 7.7. If Marine Buffer is better, would it be cost effective to raise the alk with the baking soda combo, then use less Marine Buffer to hold it there.

Jer

For FOT or FOLR yes it is better but not for a reef tank, where it will skew problems when tring to deal with Ca++ and Mg++ additions

The issue with the BBS & BS is that it doe not hold pH very well, although it is better than just BS.

Yes you could do that if you wish. I used on MB only. It is so good that there is no need to measure the pH it is always 8.3 and maybe dose once every 2 wks. Try it and find out, you will see what I mean. It is also a good indicator for water changes based on how fast it goes into solution when added.

Boomer,
I'm needing some clarification here...

I've got a 120 gallon tank set up, been running for going on 3 months. Was stocked w/ bioballs from 58 gallon tank thats been running for almost 3 years. 120 currently has a virgate rabbitfish and black cap basslet, and some live rock. I intend to transfer the fish from the 58 over to the 120, leaving the 58 fish free for 8 weeks, and lowering salinity of the 120 down to 1.010 for 8 weeks. I'm concerned about maintaining pH in the 120 while the salinity is depressed. (Finally the questions):

If I'm understanding your previous exchange w/ Jerel correctly, I'll be able to use the Marine Buffer to maintain pH while the salinity is lowered for the QT period in the 120. Will this be a problem for me later when I move over my inverts and finish turning the 120 into a reef? Will my water chemistry be skewed later on when I try to add my calcium reactor? Would I be better off using something like Sea Chem's Reef Builder instead? Are there any other options you would suggest instead?

Nick

 

[Boomer]

No Max it will be fine but remember as Salinity goes down you will need a little LESS buffer and or less Marine Buffer *BUT

Your water chem will be skewed if you go back to a reef tank and a Ca++ reactor so stay with Reef Builder. This buffer is for ONLY FOT. If you use this buffer you will need to do some multi large WC later when you go back

 

[Maxx]

Thanks for the quick reply. Thats pretty much what I gathered from reading your previous posts...but wanted to clarify just to be on the safe side.

Thank you,

Nick