polyp extension....

[Skeptic9962]

what effects polyp extension...ive been trying to figure this out for awhile...as of right now my params are:

32 gal. custom.
20 gal sump

(tunze 9010 skimmer, phosban reactor (1) for carbon (1) for phosphate media, closed loop tons of flow from that and also (2) tunze powerheads, 24" outer orbit 250w HQI w/4 24w t5s)

Ph- 8.2
alk - 9
calc - 400
mag. 1250
nitrite- 0
amon. - 0
phos - 0
nitrate - 15 still working on this...(could this be the problem?)
temp - 78 (on chiller)
salinity - 1.026

feed the fish rods reef once a day and coral frenzy 2 times a week.
add kalk in ATO just that keeps everything in line.
corals consist of all types of SPS and clam/echino.


(1) flasher wrasse, (1) tiny baby blue tang (3) pepermint shrimp, (2) conchs, Tons of all sorts of snails as clean up crew.

do weekly 10 gal. water changes consist of changing out carbon, and filter sock. clean skimmer cup about every three days. add mag. when needed...and test weekly for basics...

thats about it if there is anything i should be adding let me know if you have any input. ive just noticed alot of corals have way less extension lately and also 2 of my corals phils granulosa, cali tort have lost coloration.....should i be adding AAs or phycopure?

 

[gary shandling]

These coral need better food.They like small meaty bits of frozen or meaty type food. Then there placement and the powerhead placement help. Then 10% weekly water changes is fine but it could be 25% monthly if your readings stay level.
So you test for mag. before you add it.

Then if the coral didnt get enough food during the day then it may try at night. Look a few hours after lights out to see if they are extending.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
Your nitrates are too high which means you are importing more nutrients than you are exporting. Nitrates should read 0 when keeping SPS corals. If your make-up water and new salt water mix read 0 nitrates then you are feeding too much compared to the amount being exported. Some remedies are; feed less, change more water, increase lighting over refugium. Sometimes by just increasing the light intensity over macro algae or plants in the refugium nitrates can be reduced to 0 in 7-14 days.

Water flow also affects polyp extension. High on/off flow is best for most SPS corals. All your other parameters look good.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Skeptic9962]

allright ya i curently run the refugium with a little shop light with a flo. daylight small bulb in it...should i switch to compact flo. light thats actually made for it? and ive been running it on 24/7 should i switch that up to go on when lights go off and go off when lights come on? seems like the macro algae grows way slow....

i use IO with RODI water ill test my fresh makeup today and check it out...just didnt think there would be nitrates in fresh made RODI water but i have heard of nitrate in IO salt mix.....

....i do 20% water changes once a week....lol i used to do only 10% but since i couldnt get the nitrates down under 10 i upped it to 20% is that enugh?

ya i might possibly be feeding too much...i used to feed all at once within a few mins....but ive been trying lately to mix up the food and feed small amounts every 15 mins for about 3 hours....so everything gets eaten and nothing is alowed to settle..or very little.

Hello,
Your nitrates are too high which means you are importing more nutrients than you are exporting. Nitrates should read 0 when keeping SPS corals. If your make-up water and new salt water mix read 0 nitrates then you are feeding too much compared to the amount being exported. Some remedies are; feed less, change more water, increase lighting over refugium. Sometimes by just increasing the light intensity over macro algae or plants in the refugium nitrates can be reduced to 0 in 7-14 days.

Water flow also affects polyp extension. High on/off flow is best for most SPS corals. All your other parameters look good.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
If you are using Chaetomorpha as your export algae I would recommend running it on a reverse photo period not to exceed 14 hours. I would also use a PC bulbs of 7,100K or less as a light source. Your water changes should stand as they are but reduce the feeding to half as much as you are currently doing. Check nitrates in 7 days and you should see a reduction.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Skeptic9962]

sounds good thanks for the help kevin ive done everything you have told me to do also ordered a new 12" PC light fixture from curent for the fuge so hope that will help a bit...

also checked out reviews on Elos pro skimmer, AAs and found that they seem to help everyone that has used them with Polyp extension/color/growth and BR uses them on there tanks and see great results so i decided to try them out too started using them today we will see if one of the things i do will work lol

Hello,
If you are using Chaetomorpha as your export algae I would recommend running it on a reverse photo period not to exceed 14 hours. I would also use a PC bulbs of 7,100K or less as a light source. Your water changes should stand as they are but reduce the feeding to half as much as you are currently doing. Check nitrates in 7 days and you should see a reduction.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Skeptic9962]

doesnt make any sense...some sps are starting to have a bit of stn on the bottom of them...im wondering if im thinking im doing everything right and unintensionally screwing things up....

i do my waterchanges/change carbon weekly and mix the water and salt mix together in (2) 5 gal jugs. 24 hours prior to doing the change mix it up till all salt is disolved then test salinity. let it sit till the next day and then retest salinity if its good i do the change. i use a phosban reactor for the carbon and use 1 cup in it and change that once a week..

anything anyone can think of not the obvious stuff?

i guess all it takes is time but shouldnt be getting worse...

got nitrates down under 10 now just recently

 

[gary shandling]

SPS like flow over high lights.
What do you use for water flow in your 155?

 

[Skeptic9962]

? =P dont have a 155...32 gal w/20gal sump in the tank i have two tunze nano 6025s modded along with a closed loop system hooked to a eheim 1260...cant remeber what turnover was but it was well over 70x and have a 250w HQI w/4 24w T5s equalling out to 350ish watts...my bulb is a 20k helios.

 

[gary shandling]

70 times is to high. If you have low to no stock then 15 to 25 is fine. High stock and lots of stock then 25 to 45 might be needed. The thing with flow is you need to adjust as your system matures. But 70 times could be high in most cases.In a 30 gallon its way to much.

? =P dont have a 155...32 gal w/20gal sump in the tank i have two tunze nano 6025s modded along with a closed loop system hooked to a eheim 1260...cant remeber what turnover was but it was well over 70x and have a 250w HQI w/4 24w T5s equalling out to 350ish watts...my bulb is a 20k helios.

 

[ziggy]

Are you browning out any of the sps?

 

[apollothesun]

have you tried to look at the corals that are infected with a magnifying glass? do you see any clear flatworms?

 

[Skeptic9962]

doesnt seem to be browning out at all my cali tort is a little brown on the bottom...thats only corals that are brown...the rest are either perfect or a small amount of stn on the bottoms also 1 of my echino is starting to get white/bleaching and my tri color is getting pretty white on top of them...i havnt checked with a magnifying glass for AEFWs yet...ive been wanting to but havnt yet. the thing with flow is the 1260 hits random flow on a spray bar under the rocks...so that really isnt much use to the top of the corals...so i have 1 nano pointed one way and the other the other way one is up high and other is about middle of tank....seems to give good random flow...not to hard where its constantly getting blasted....

 

[Skeptic9962]

and its kinda wierd how its just select corals and there not all the same type....like one is a milli that just doesnt have its color at all and its base is white...the other is a echino that is losing its color and turning white...the other 3 that are doing it i belive are acros. the phils granulosa just doesnt have the color it should...along with cali tort and the triclolor

seems like all of them are bleaching out...could all of that be linked to a one time stress when my nitrates hit 50 within a couple days? that was a while back but found out that was way high and did water changes to get it down to under 10 now...

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
It's possible that with the reduction of nitrates (by frequent water changes) that the water clarity has increased which suddenly increases light intensity before the corals have a chance to adapt. Some corals are more sensitive than others to light changes. I don't think the spike in nitrates is continuing to be a problem if it was more than a few weeks ago.

How deep is your tank? How long have your corals been under your current light fixture? It is possible that some of the corals are receiving too much light. What is your photo period.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Skeptic9962]

i got the lights about a month ago or so upgraded from 150w to 250w my tank is 24" deep but from top to sand is about 18"...

t5s on from 10am to 10pm
halide from 12pm to 8pm

 

[dailydriven911]

70 times is to high. If you have low to no stock then 15 to 25 is fine. High stock and lots of stock then 25 to 45 might be needed. The thing with flow is you need to adjust as your system matures. But 70 times could be high in most cases.In a 30 gallon its way to much.

I do not agree. Sps need random turbulent flow. I have 70x turnover in a 34g cube. The problem is not flow related imo.

 

[kevinpo]

My guess is that the color change is due to a change in lighting intensity.

Lack of polyp extension is another matter. It could be too much (high velocity) water movement but as long as the tissue is staying put it should not be a health issue. Tissue recession (tips or base) on the other hand is a cause for concern and a call for action. IME light increases, swings in temperature, salinity, alkalinity, and DOC buildup are the most common factors for tissue recession in SPS corals. Let me add changing salt brands with large water changes also.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Skeptic9962]

My guess is that the color change is due to a change in lighting intensity.

Lack of polyp extension is another matter. It could be too much (high velocity) water movement but as long as the tissue is staying put it should not be a health issue. Tissue recession (tips or base) on the other hand is a cause for concern and a call for action. IME light increases, swings in temperature, salinity, alkalinity, and DOC buildup are the most common factors for tissue recession in SPS corals. Let me add changing salt brands with large water changes also.

Regards,
Kevin

yeah its been just recently that the polyp extension has stoped within the last 3 weeks or so..tissue recession has only been at the base on a few corals...that a few weeks ago where fine...i have a chiller that keeps the tank at 77-78 never goes out of that area...my alk ive tested days in a row and staying steady at 8dkh...DOC buildup is the only thing i can really pinpoint this to....along with change in light intensity...havnt changed from salts at all been using IO since start of the system. i did switch from using rowaphos in a phosban reactor to using phosguard....that was couple weeks ago also...but was told that phosguard is way less invasive and powerful than rowaphos...but i unplugged that a few days ago just incase to see if things would get better without it.

So guess its just time to wait and see how things pan out...i think ive done everything i can considering my levels are all perfect aside from the 10 nitrate i have and im working on that still doing larger changes. adding AAs along with proskimmer, got some more cheato and new bulb for the fuge and put that on a oposite timer...stoped using the phosguard considering that was right around the time everything started to look not so hot...we will see if anyone has any other ideas let me know :razz: thanks for all the help

 

[Reeferdude]

From the discussion thus far I don't think it's a flow problem. It is likely nitrate and or lighting. Did you have a phosphate problem? How close is your light to the surface and are the corals in question closer to the light or are they at random locations? Forgot to ask...Did the problem start when you upgraded to 250 and why did you upgrade?