pulse start vs electronic

[Sushi Reef]

what are the differences... and which would be better suited for me?
pros?
cons?

i am running 2 XM 10K 250W MH on a 75 gal tank

i just need to decide on a ballast

 

[bradreef]

anything works on those bulbs. sanjay actually has results with different ballasts on xm 10k's it will show you wich ones put out what power.

 

[Jeff]

Pros of electronics are
will fire any 250w bulb, change your mind in the future? No problem.
They don't generate much heat
They draw less electricity, bulbs "may" last longer

Cons
Not as bright as prob/other magnetic ballasts
Can cost more

I should add that the pulse start pros and cons are basically reversed

 

[Sushi Reef]

anything works on those bulbs. sanjay actually has results with different ballasts on xm 10k's it will show you wich ones put out what power.

so your sayin that other bulbs may not work on a pulse start in the future?

Pros of electronics are
will fire any 250w bulb, change your mind in the future? No problem.
They don't generate much heat
They draw less electricity, bulbs "may" last longer

Cons
Not as bright as prob/other magnetic ballasts
Can cost more

I should add that the pulse start pros and cons are basically reversed

really.... so in your opinon E-ballasts are worth the extra cash



which is more reliable
and what type of bulbs will not work on the pulse start beside HQI :razz:

 

[bradreef]

there is an rc sponsor ocean encounter that usually has great deals on ballasts.

 

[Jeff]

It only matters is you think they are worth the extra cash

For me yeah I bought electronic mainly because I didn't want extra heat or noise in my living room - where the ballasts are mounted. And I wanted the flexibility to switch to what ever bulb I wanted. I also like IceCap as a company, when I have needed help they went above and beyond for me.

Honestly If was starting a new tank in a different location I would have a tough time deciding between the two again.

Jeff

 

[Sushi Reef]

thanks guys... i've made up my mind

icecap on oncean encounter ... thanks to the both of you

 

[Maxx]

Great thread by Electric 130 on RC....quoted many times, but still incredibly useful. Once again:

Metal Halide Ballasts, which one is which? Answers here:
I have seen countless lighting threads asking what each MH ballast is or what bulbs work on it. I orginally posted this in another forum to answer another member's question. I thought it was best posted here. If there's anything I missed, or have incorrect, please let me know.

250w example:

Probe start: ANSI: M58, core, capacitor
Pulse start: ANSI: M138, core, capacitor, ignitor
HQI: ANSI: M80, core, capacitor, ignitor
EYE: ANSI: H37, core, capacitor, actually a mercury vapor ballast
Electronic: ANSI: none, metal box with wires

probe start will run american bulbs with ignitors built into the bulbs like coralife and venture bulbs. some german and euro bulbs will run fine on these, but without an ignitor, the bulb struggles to light and bulb life may be decreased. also reliabilty goes down.

pulse start will run the german/euro bulbs (ushio, AB, radium, etc.) these bulbs don't have built in ignitors, so the ballast has the ignitor wired into the circuit. the ignitor provides the high voltages needed to fire the bulb. you can run probe start bulbs on these ballasts, but the two ignitors may try to fight each other and possibly cause a fire.

HQI ballasts are similar to pulse starts in their wiring and ability to run bulbs. the output is a little higher which is meant to run the double-ended bulbs (commonly called HQI bulbs). people run mogul bulbs on these and they run a little hotter and brighter because they are being overdriven. this in turn shortens the life of the bulbs.

EYE ballasts are mercury vapor ballasts. they are similar to a probe start ballast, but the only bulb you can run on these are Iwasaki 6500K bulbs (because these are actually MV bulbs, not MH bulbs like most think). the ballast will damage MH bulbs if you try to run one on it.

Electronic. ahhh, the great electronics. these will run any bulb at the rated wattage: probe start, pulse start, iwasakis, DE (double ended-HQI). if you think you might change your mind in the future, get an electronic. you can change bulbs to whatever you want and not have to worry about the ballast being the wrong type. electronics run cooler (a magnetic MH ballast will burn your hand if you touch the coil after it's been running for awhile). they also use less energy.

Additional info:

175watt:
Probe start: ANSI: M57, core, capacitor
Pulse start: ANSI: M137, core, capacitor, ignitor
Electronic: ANSI: none, metal box with wires

400watt:
Probe start: ANSI: M59, core, capacitor
Pulse start: ANSI: M135, core, capacitor, ignitor
HQI: ANSI: SON AGRO, core, capacitor, ignitor (this is actually a 430w HPS ballast used primarily in hydroponics)
EYE: ANSI: H33, core, capacitor, actually a mercury vapor ballast
Electronic: ANSI: none, metal box with wires

HTH,

Nick

 

[Sushi Reef]

thank you very much that break down was great

 

[Scooterman]

I'd still go for the Pulse start or HQI most probably to get the most out of them. If you look at the cost & efficiencies of electronic verses Tar ballast, your looking at pennies. Not knocking electronic ballast they do run way cooler, quieter in some cases, & have to issues with lighting any lamps but fall very short on the punch of power out comparing, this is where the ye ol Tar makes up the difference. One last thing to consider, not all electronic or tar ballast manufactures are created equal, be careful on your choices, Ice-Cap & blueline make great ballast but punch way less than some of the other electronic ballast.

 

[Maxx]

I'd still go for the Pulse start or HQI most probably to get the most out of them. If you look at the cost & efficiencies of electronic verses Tar ballast, your looking at pennies. Not knocking electronic ballast they do run way cooler, quieter in some cases, & have to issues with lighting any lamps but fall very short on the punch of power out comparing, this is where the ye ol Tar makes up the difference. One last thing to consider, not all electronic or tar ballast manufactures are created equal, be careful on your choices, Ice-Cap & blueline make great ballast but punch way less than some of the other electronic ballast.

Regular tar and coil ballasts do produce more PAR than E-ballasts. They also use more electricity. Same w/ HQI ballasts. They also weigh alot more, so you pay more for shipping, which is another expense many people dont take into account when factoring the difference in cost between T&C and E-ballasts. Since they weigh more and generate heat, you also need to be more careful in where you locate T&C ballasts. I have my E-ballasts hanging from the wall by a screw.

I also disagree w/ Scooterman about the IceCap ballast having less punch than some of the other E-Ballasts....

JBNY has done extensive testing of 250 watt SE bulb and ballast combinations, and recorded his findings on his webpage.... http://www.cnidarianreef.com

Here are some quick copy/pastes of what he found...

ARO (Hellolights) Electronic Ballast
Lamp PAR Watts MaxWatts Amps MaxAmp
Iwasaki 605 250 253 2.11 2.19
XM10K 526 250 251 2.16 2.37
BLSW 465 250 254 2.16 2.2
EVC10K 463 249 256 2.16 2.19
SUN10K 461 248 256 2.14 2.23
AB13K 434 252 254 2.15 2.51
Ushio 408 251 269 2.14 2.61
AC14K 391 253 258 2.23 2.33
CV10K 360 249 251 2.11 2.15
HM14K 338 249 253 2.17 2.63
Radium 327 249 252 2.18 2.23
SBURST12K 302 250 270 2.18 2.5
CV20K 286 249 265 2.16 2.55
XM20K 270 250 253 2.16 2.41
SUN14K 259 249 255 2.15 2.37
CV12K 258 250 273 2.17 2.48
BL10K 253 246 250 2.14 2.19
CV15K 243 250 252 2.16 2.22
SUN20K 227 246 278 2.17 2.53
PFO 13K 206 251 252 2.16 2.19
XM15K 171 252 256 2.2 2.27

IceCap Electronic Ballast
Lamp PAR Watts MaxWatts Amps MaxAmp
Iwasaki 651 252 275 2.17 2.45
XM10K 530 252 254 2.2 2.82
SUN10K 494 252 255 2.14 3.86
BLSW 494 252 254 2.15 2.83
EVC10K 492 252 254 2.15 2.96
AB13K 422 254 257 2.17 2.3
Ushio 414 252 258 2.19 3.41
AC14K 406 252 264 2.17 2.32
CV10K 387 250 251 2.17 2.46
HM14K 352 251 252 2.17 2.29
Radium 330 252 275 2.19 3.56
CV20K 307 251 253 2.2 2.25
SBURST12K 304 253 284 2.17 2.61
XM20K 270 252 301 2.17 2.81
BL10K 263 248 250 2.18 3.68
CV12K 259 251 253 2.17 3.32
SUN14K 253 251 308 2.18 2.79
CV15K 242 251 252 2.2 3.85
PFO13K 227 251 268 2.18 2.86
SUN20K 224 247 249 2.2 3.0
XM15K 187 252 254 2.17 2.83

As you can see the IceCap and ARO E-ballasts performed similarly. The other two E-ballasts that JBNY tested were the Blueline and the CoralVue, which performed similar to each other, and did significantly worse than the IceCap or ARO in terms of PAR provided. I think Scooterman may be confusing the IceCap with the CoralVue. But he is very right in saying not all ballasts are created equal.

Nick

 

[Scooterman]

I was comparing them to EVC & Reef Fantic but Nick you also have to consider each lamp, it can get tiresome, & in some cases little difference between them. Oh yes I did say they use more electricity but look closely on equal terms & you will see that is isn't much more excluding the HQI also look at efficiency these are small differences. I agree the Electronic are cooler, lighter (I forgot to mention that one thanks Nick) & do save you some juice at the cost of less PAR, maybe not drastic to yea each has it's own benefits & downfalls I totally agree.

EVC Ballast LampPARWattsMaxWattsAmpsMaxAmp

XM10K5592462492.032.8

Iwasaki5172472502.032.87

AC14K4382502542.032.1

SUN10K4252472482.013.29

BLSW4232472492.03.2

EVC10K4122462482.012.08

Ushio3942472482.023.65

HM14K3502462502.012.06

Radium2942472482.032.59

SBURST12K2912462512.013.66

BL10K2902472481.982.37

SUN14K2612462482.03.33

CV12K2572462941.972.02

XM20K2542462472.02.59

SUN20K2412472482.012.14

XM15K2112522562.072.12

PFO 13K1842462482.02.4

 

[Scooterman]

Look at the difference here in one example, only thing we're missing if efficiency but little difference.

PFO Standard LampPARWattsMaxWattsAmpsMaxAmp

XM10K 600 268 269 2.47 3.39

IceCap Electronic Ballast LampPARWattsMaxWattsAmpsMaxAmp

XM10K 530 252 254 2.2 2.82

 

[Scooterman]

This is a very nice Electronic ballast BTW & how can you beat that price for what you get.

http://oceanencounter.com/Merchant2...=OE&Product_Code=EVCMH250&Category_Code=EVCEB

Reef Fantic rated the Highest of all the electronic ballast tested.

http://www.saltycritter.com/lighting/metal_halide_reef_fanatic_ballast.htm

Reef Fanatic LampPARWattsMaxWattsAmpsMaxAmp
XM10K 571 247 248 2.03 2.77
Iwasaki 523 247 248 2.033.3
BLSW 454 246 247 2.0 3.75
AC14K 441 247 249 2.03 2.62
SUN10K 420 246 249 1.98 3.68
EVC10K 417 247 248 2.01 3.44
Ushio 383 246 248 2.04 2.67
HM14K 350 247 248 2.03 2.6
BL10K 294 246 247 1.94 2.7
SBURST12K 283 247 250 2.01 2.21
SUN14K 257 246 247 2.01 2.15
CV12K 252 246 248 2.0 2.92
XM20K 246 246 334 2.03 3.31
SUN20K 239 246 247 2.0 2.02
XM15K 209 251 253 2.07 2.09
PFO 13K 185 246 248 2.0 3.35

Guess know one realizes that these two are Electronic ballast. Next time post the complete survey & not part that makes your statement correct

 

[Scooterman]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/4/aafeature/view

 

[Maxx]

Scott,
I didnt realize the Reef Fanatic and the EVC were E-ballasts, or I would have included it in my post...:lol:

IMO the biggest advantage to using E-ballasts is the ability to switch bulbs at a whim. You dont need to know if bulbs are pulse or probe start. The only bulb AFAIK that will NOT run on an e-ballast is the XDE, (Double Ended XM bulbs), they require a true HQI ballast to run.

As Scott mentioned, there is a minor electrical savings between E-ballasts and T&C ballasts. Is it worth the added expense of an E-ballast.....not IMO. However, the flexibility to change to almost any bulb, the lighter weight, less heat, and less initial electrical usage (at start up) was worth the added cost of buying E-ballasts. At the time I bought these, I lived in an older home with 60 amp service, so I needed every break I could get.

BTW how did the reef fanatic get rated highest? Checking bulb to PAR numbers on the RF ballast didnt impress me much with anything but the XM10K and the AC14K.

Lamp/Ballast........PAR....Watts......MaxWatts....Amps....MaxAmp
XM10K/ARO.........526....250..........251............2.16.....2.37
XM10K/IC............530....252..........254............2.2.......2.82
XM10K/RF...........571....247..........248............2.03......2.77
XM10K/EVC.........559....246..........249............2.03......2.8

Iwasaki/ARO........605....250..........253............2.11......2.19
Iwasaki/IC..........651....252..........275............2.17......2.45
Iwasaki/RF..........523....247..........248............2.03......3.3
Iwasaki/EVC........517....247..........250............2.03......2.87

BLSW/ARO..........465....250..........254............2.16......2.2
BLSW/IC............494....252..........254............2.15......2.83
BLSW/RF............454....246..........247............2.0........3.75
BLSW/EVC..........423....247..........249............2.0........3.2

EVC10K/ARO.......463....249..........256............2.16.......2.19
EVC10K/IC.........492....252..........254............2.15.......2.96
EVC10K/RF.........417....247..........248............2.01.......3.44
EVC10K/EVC.......412....246..........248............2.01.......2.08

SUN10K/ARO......461....248..........256.............2.14.......2.23
SUN10K/IC........494....252..........255.............2.14.......3.86
SUN10K/RF........420....246..........249.............1.98.......3.68
SUN10K/EVC......425....247..........248.............2.01.......3.29

AB13K/ARO........434....252..........254.............2.15.......2.51
AB13K/IC...........422....254..........257.............2.17.......2.3
not tested on RF or EVC

Ushio/ARO.........408....251..........269..............2.14.......2.61
Ushio /IC..........414....252..........258..............2.19.......3.41
Ushio/RF...........383....246..........248..............2.04.......2.67
Ushio/EVC.........394....247..........248..............2.02.......3.65

AC14K/ARO........391....253.........258..............2.23........2.33
AC14K/IC..........406....252.........264..............2.17........2.32
AC14K/RF..........441....247.........249..............2.03........2.62
AC14K/EVC........438....250.........254..............2.03........2.1

CV10K/ARO........360....249.........251..............2.11........2.15
CV10K/IC...........387....250.........251..............2.17........2.46
not tested on RF or EVC

HM14K/ARO........338....249.........253..............2.17........2.63
HM14K/IC...........352....251.........252..............2.17........2.29
HM14K/RF..........350....247.........248..............2.03........2.6
HM14K/EVC........350....246.........250..............2.01........2.06

Radium/ARO.......327.....249.........252..............2.18........2.23
Radium/IC..........330.....252.........275..............2.19........3.56
not tested on RF
Radium/EVC.......294.....247.........248..............2.03........2.59

SBRST12K/ARO....302....250.........270..............2.18........2.5
SBRST12K/IC......304....253........284...............2.17........2.61
SBRST12K/RF......283....247........250...............2.01........2.21
SBRST12K/EVC....291....246........251...............2.01........3.66

CV20K/ARO.........286....249.........265..............2.16........2.55
CV20K/IC...........307.....251.........253..............2.2.........2.25
not tested on RF or EVC

XM20K/ARO........270.....250.........253..............2.16........2.41
XM20K/IC..........270......252.........301..............2.17........2.81
XM20K/RF..........246......246.........334..............2.03........3.31
XM20K/EVC........254......246.........247..............2.0..........2.59

SUN14K/ARO......259.......249.........255..............2.15........2.37
SUN14K/IC........253.......251.........308...............2.18.......2.79
SUN14K/RF........257.......246.........247...............2.01.......2.15
SUN14K/EVC......261.......246.........248...............2.0.........3.33

CV12K/ARO........258.......250.........273...............2.17.......2.48
CV12K/IC..........259........251........253................2.17.......3.32
CV12K/RF..........252.......246.........248................2.0........2.92
CV12K/EVC........257.......246.........294................1.97......2.02

BL10K/ARO........253........246.........250...............2.14.......2.19
BL10K/IC..........263.........248.........250...............2.18.......3.68
BL10K/RF..........294.........246.........247...............1.94.......2.7
BL10K/EVC........290.........247.........248...............1.98.......2.37

CV15K/ARO.......243.........250..........252...............2.16......2.22
CV15K/IC..........242.........251..........252...............2.2.......3.85
not tested on RF or EVC

SUN20K/ARO......227.........246.........278...............2.17......2.53
SUN20K/IC........224..........247.........249...............2.2.......3.0
SUN20K/RF........239..........246.........247..............2.0........2.02
SUN20K/EVC......241..........247.........248..............2.01......2.14

PFO13K/ARO......206..........251.........252..............2.16......2.19
PFO13K/IC.........227..........251.........268..............2.18.....2.86
PFO13K/RF........185...........246.........248..............2.0......3.35
PFO13K/EVC......184...........246.........248..............2.0......2.4

XM15K/ARO.......171...........252.........256..............2.2......2.27
XM15K/IC..........187...........252.........254..............2.17....2.83
XM15K/RF..........209..........251.........253..............2.07....2.09
XM15K/EVC........211..........252.........256..............2.07....2.12



What I'm seeing here is that the RF beats the other ballasts only in terms of electricity used. Was that what you were referring to? The RF ballast does produce more PAR on XM10K's, AC14K's, BL10K's, Sun20K's, and the XM15K's. The RF ballast ran Hamilton14K's better in terms of PAR than the ARO ballast, but about the same as the IceCap ballast.

Nick

 

[Scooterman]

Scott,
Is it worth the added expense of an E-ballast.....not IMO.

BTW how did the reef fanatic get rated highest? Checking bulb to PAR numbers on the RF ballast didnt impress me much with anything but the XM10K and the AC14K.
Nick

The price & shipping on the E-ballast are an advantage, adding to another plus. I said that based on averages of efficiency & the popular lamps it preforms well on using electronic ballast not the TAR, It is difficult for any to do great on every lamp made. There will always be a better one made or a better lamp, In most cases any of these will preform well, finding a combination you like may be a little more tricky, what is the best, well even with all these test it could be arguable, depends on what you want. There are so many variables, you almost need to know what few lamps you want to use in picking the best ballast for those ballast & hopefully they will preform well on most of them.

If you want all out PAR or high growth, the 10K XM with HQI PFO ballast uses a ton of power & still to date none will even come close to the sun's ability!

 

[Sushi Reef]

oh man i thought i had a firm grip on what was going on .. i know i want an electronic ballast.. but which one?!?! ... UGHHHHHHHHHH
icecap sounds like a reputable company and a quality product.. how do others feel about RF and EVC?

 

[Scooterman]

Both have been around a while & prove reliable as most electronic ballast, that would be a toss up IMO, the solid state electronics are usually well made these days but I agree IC's are probably the most popular E-ballast.

 

[Sushi Reef]

i'm gonna order the icecaps... now post a bunch of other options to stress me out more :razz: