recharging chillers

[apollothesun]

has anybody done this where you can buy the refrigerant at the local auto store and recharged their chiller? any special equipment that needs to be purchase? anyone who you know recharges chillers? wanna get ready for summer. thanks in advance

 

[BCT182]

My understanding is that the stuff you buy at an autoparts store is for OLD school AC systems. The stuff for newer cars (an chillers) requires a permit to attain as it is pretty tough on the ozone layer.

Your best bet would be to stop in at a auto shop that services A/C. They require very little refrigerant to fill and sometimes they will even do it for free if your lucky. Carry the chiller in one hand and in the other hand have a bottle of jack daniels with a red ribbon tied around the neck.

 

[xfisher]

finally something I know all about

has anybody done this where you can buy the refrigerant at the local auto store and recharged their chiller? any special equipment that needs to be purchase? anyone who you know recharges chillers? wanna get ready for summer. thanks in advance

The refrigerant that's in a chiller system is charged at the factory the piping of the refrigrerant is pressure tested before charging at pressures well above operating pressure of the chiller and never needs charging again unless a leak has occured which would need repairing before re-charge.Only a certified refrigeration mechanics will be qualified to refurbish or repair your chiller with labor and refrigerant prices probably won't be cost feasible as opposed to replacing it witha new chiller.

 

[The Apprentice]

Apollo, I have very little understanding of refrigeration but i do know things like this.
I have 2 chillers made by the same MFG made 2 months apart One takes R-22 which is usually a Home MFG refrigerant and the smaller one takes R-134A which is usually a automotive based refrigerant. If you know and under stand things like latent heat and head pressures do it your self, if Not just spend some $$ to have a home hvac tech have a look at your chiller, The nice thing about this is they have trained eyes for looking for leaks and how to clean sub assemblies like you condensing unit..
Just my sincere humble 2 cents
Jeff
P.s. 5 years on prime chillers with no need to refill freon, just lost my first controller.

 

[danno14]

My understanding is that the stuff you buy at an autoparts store is for OLD school AC systems. The stuff for newer cars (an chillers) requires a permit to attain as it is pretty tough on the ozone layer.

Brett- It's the other way around.... the old school stuff is the most $$$ and the newer is not as bad. Xfisher and the apprentice are right on target

 

[DonW]

You can charge a chiller with anything even propane if you so desired as long as you use the proper oil. The only thing with chillers is the charge fittings are not usually installed at the factory. The tech solders on a charge adapter at time of service. Check it for a charge adapter it it has one then anyone can do it otherwise you have to pay a tech.

Don

 

[Pentagona]

FWIW....PLEASE don't use propane to re-charge ANY refrigerant system, unless that system was designed and labled to be used with propane. I work with automotive refrigerants every day and aside from the fact that you can severely damage if not ruin someones multi-thousand dollar piece of equipment via contamination in the event that you have to have it serviced professionally, most refrigerants and oils DO NOT INTERMIX! They can become caustic and litterally eat away at the metals inside your unit. Use only the type of refrigerant that was originally used in the unit, and in most cases will require an HVAC or MVAC certification to purchase. These units, like home A/C units are built "sealed" and should not need service unless a leak developes. In the event that a leak has developed in your unit, charging it without repairing it will likely only lead to you wating your money on refrigerant that is simply destroying the environment. Do yourself a favor and have a certified HVAC technician take a look at it.

 

[DonW]

Darn techs like to make it sound difficult. Although I wouldn't use propane I would however retrofit with an acceptable refrigerant. They don't use an accumulator, orfice or expansion valve like a car. As long as it has fittings they are easy to charge provided you have a vacuum pump and at least a simple gauge set. If no fitting then you have to know how to solder.

Don

 

[Pentagona]

retrofitting is fine provided the system is flushed to remove any residual oil from the previous refrigerant.

 

[DonW]

You don't need to flush a chiller. Its not a car the negetive pressure alone is plenty just like a frig.

Don

 

[Pentagona]

Okay Don....whatever you say. BTW I don't just work on automotive systems, I'm HVAC as well.

 

[DonW]

Not really the place to banter qualifications. I've got just a little bit of experience when it comes to refrigeration. My point is that it not near as hard as its made out to be.

Don

 

[Pentagona]

Just trying to give thorough information. Having lost some really expensive pieces of equipment myself because DIY'ers simply didn't know you couldn't mix refrigerants, or certain oil/refrigerant combinations, I think it's important for them to know the details if their going to take it on themselves.

 

[ac7av]

If your system needs recharged it has a leak. The leak has to be repaired before you recharge it. It is irresponsible to charge a system with out first finding out where the leak is and trying to fix it. It is also a waist if time and money since you will have the same problem again in short order. Any system that has a leak has to be flushed out unless you know for a fact no contaminants entered the system. Only small hi side leaks that have never entered into a vacuum will not allow contaminants into the system. Any low side leaks are considered dirty and need to be flushed. The majority of leaks happen in the low side or suction side of the system. You will be money better well spend getting a technician to do the work unless you have the equipment to do it your self. The smallest vacuum pumps and gauge sets will put you back $600 + and that’s not including the parts and refrigerant to fix the unit. Depending on the exact problem if you know for a fact you have a leak, sealed system repairs will usually run you $200 - $400 plus parts for the repair. Is that going to be worth it to fix? Pleas don’t put any funny stuff in it like LP gas and try dropping in 134A in to a R22 system, it just won’t work out.
16 years experience in refrigeration and air conditioning and its no wonder my wife is always cold.
LOL

 

[DonW]

First off this subject is not near as difficult as the "pro's" make it out to be. Most chillers have a very slight leaks that are usually so small that they are not detected at the factory. Most are 134a. A savy diy person dose not need to spend hundreds on tools. I have gauge set that cost me under $50 and one that cost $700 they perform the same job. Harborfreight sells a capable ventui pump for $15. That being said you can install a $5 bullet on the fill stub and pull a 30hg vacuum on the chiller for under $20. If the thing holds the vacuum for a few days chances are the chiller will be fine as is. If not then you may need to hire a repair guy or try your hand at soldering. Assuming it holds vacuum you need to recharge it. Since you won't want to go out and buy a expensive charging scale or gauges for only a couple 0z of 134a even jiffy lube can throw in a few oz of 134a or any shop with a scale. That's about $2 worth of 134a with a bonus. It will usually have a uv charge right in the 134a. This means if the r134a only last a year or two next time around a simple black light will show you where it went. So for under $30 you can recharge a chiller and you will own the vacuum for next time around.

Is this really the way its done NO but it WILL work and is perfectly safe as any pro should know. So if you want to recharge your chiller on a budget, go for it the most you will be out is a few buck if you find that it has a major leak that can't be easily fixed. Much less than even the service charge from an appliance repair guy.

Don

 

[Pentagona]

--*sigh*--

 

[apollothesun]

hey everybody, thanks for the replies and suggestions. im glad some of you reefers work in this type of field everyday.
for what's it worth, i dont have a leak because its still dropping the temperature. its a used unit a company that went out of business. in fact i got two chillers. ones a drop-in and the other one is an inline. i wanted to hook up the inline cuz the drop in chiller is inside my house and starting to heat up the house nicely. its great for winter time but come summer it will be an oven in my house. before i hooked up the inline outside the house, i wanted to recharge the chiller because of its unknown age of it. but if ya'll saying unless it has a leak than all should be fine. i didnt want it to loose its luster during the summer months ahead. i wanted to diy self recharge because as most of you like me, enjoy shopping at harbor frieght tools. i saw those recharge kits and guages but didnt know all the details on doing it. my inline by the way looks to be 5+ years. works great though, pulls the temp 1 degree in a 5 gallon bucket using a mag18 every minute. inside the unit it says 131a refrigerant. i was actually hoping one of you techies had the equipment at home and for a small fee recharge me.
so in that saying, how long should a chiller lastwithout leaks? 10 yrs, 20 years? after that, the cost to recharge it, might as well buy new?
by the way, if you havent seen returnofsid frag cutting craze with his table saw he got from harbor frieght tools you should check it out. prompted me to get one online for cheap and shipping was like 9 dollars. no tax

 

[ac7av]

Apollothesun, don’t worry about the leaks. Just inspect it once in a while and make sure you not getting a corrosion problem anywhere and if you are try to address that before you do get a leak. If it appears to be working correctly it probably does not have a leak. No matter what anyone tells you if you hook up a gauge set to check you will then have an imbalance because gas will have to fill the lines to the gauge to give you the reading. Now this is not that important in larger system but if you system is smaller say 10 oz or less don’t bother unless you know you are having a sealed system problem. With that said if you have a unit that does make it to 10 years with out trouble and it does go down you should just replace it. Refrigeration technology has come a long way even in the last 5 years you will be money ahead getting a more efficient new unit then an expensive repair and still running an old unit. That’s my 2 BTU’s worth.

 

[Pentagona]

Well said ac7av.