Red Bugs

[brandyrb]

I was just wondering how much of a threat the little red bugs on acropora are? I've read that there isn't much known about them and that people have gone to the lengths of adding, interceptor, a dog heart worm medicine, to their reef setup to get rid of them at the loss of their crabs, shrimp, snails and pods.

We have the little red bugs on a lot of our acros and I have also noticed the little red flat worms on the front glass, but I don't want to add weird stuff to our tank if it's not necessary. I don't know where these things come from and I wonder if it's even possible to truly get rid of them. We don't quarantine any corals or frags and we've never dipped them either. Most of the frags are mounted to the rock.

We have an abundance of snails (a tiger snail keeps coming up with babies), hermit crabs, two cleaner shrimp, an urchin and a lot of pods that are needed to feed the mandarins. We also have fish, an anemone and a couple gorgonias. All of which I don't want to risk losing.

Do mandarins eat these bugs? Do the bugs eat the corals? Are there any other methods of getting rid of them? I have been blowing them off the coral with a turkey baster... I'm not sure if that does any good though.

Kevin,

What is your experience with this?

Thanks

 

[Maxx]

Hi Brandy,
I'm not Kevin, but I've had more experiance with Red Bugs than I'd like.
Your snails, anemone, urchins, and Gorgonians wont be affected by the Interceptor. Interceptor only affects crustaceans because the main ingredient interferes with chiton.

I also have treated my tank twice w/ Interceptor...my urchin, snails, anemone, and gorgonian, and corals were fine. I had to remove my hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp, emerald crabs, and acro crabs. My pod population did take a hit, but were able to bounce back. Those that hid in the rock, survived, those that were out in the open didnt make it. One of my cleaner shrimp was obnoxious about coming out...he sat in the tank for 4 of the 6 hours required for the treatment. At that point, I was able to get him out of the tank, and then place him in my QT tank for safe keeping. No after effects were noticed despite being exposed to Interceptor for so long.

Here is a great thread for you to read about Red Bugs.

Red Bugs - Inevitable?

You really should QT your acro's. Otherwise, you'll wind up getting red bugs again. Thats how I got them the 2nd time. The other reason to QT your acros is to avoid introducing Acro Eating Flatworms to your tank. AEFW's are nasty, and as of yet, there is no reliable, 100% coral safe AEFW treatment. The best treatment for them so far kills anywhere from 20%-50% of corals being treated.

AEFW's make Red bugs look easy by comparison.

Nick

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
There are many tanks with red bugs that do just fine and others that only did fine once they were removed. I have used interceptor in several tanks with some success. It may take up to 4 treatments to kill them all off. Acro eating flatworms are much worse. As for the red flatworms treat with "Flatworm Exit" ASAP before the population gets too large and you can easily get rid of them without harming any other inhabitants. Once they start covering your rocks and sand it can be very hazardous to kill them off in such large numbers because their body fluids are toxic and are released into the tank during the treatment.

HTH,
Kevin

 

[bradreef]

I just wanted to add there are a few fish such as six line wrasses that kill the red flatworms. they can really keep a tank clean but it doesn't always work.

 

[tamarindthai]

i have the cleanner wrease eating redbug,,just to reduce the red bug population down,,work for me

 

[barrierreefcf]

Melanarus Wrasses also work great for red flatworms. Same experience here with red bugs. In some tanks they don't seem to bother the Acros and in others (where i suspect there are other factors weakening the Acros as well) they seem to accelerate the acros demise. Quarantine or at least dip all SPS for red bugs, monti nudi's, AEFW, etc. It'll saveyou so much headache and/or loss in the long run.

 

[SueT]

I have had to treat my tank for red bugs too. I treated twice and have been fine ever since. I lost some of my pop population but thet bounced back quite quickly. The guy that came up with the idea of using Interceptor is Duston Dorton of ORA and at the time no one knew what to use to kill these beasts. Some do have them in their reefs and have not a single problem. What I noticed was a slow loss of color and an overall downward spiral in coral health. Once treated and in fact during threatment you can see immediate change in the corals. They will begin to slime red bugs off and polyp extension is back.

 

[brandyrb]

Thanks for the replies.

The corals infected with the bugs have decreased polyp extension, but most of them still have their color. We have a purple bonsai frag, a blue tipped acro and a lovelli frag that have a few of the bugs and are getting white patches at the base. The bonsai constantly has polyps, the lovelli and blue tipped acro don't. Our tri-colored frags are infected the most and don't have nearly the polyp extension that they used to. The oregon tort frags also have a few bugs and decreased polyp extension. The slimer, stylophoras, birds nests, paletta blue, purple monster and blue tenuis don't seem to have the bugs, but all of them except for the stylos and birds nests have decreased polyp extension.

We also put new bulbs in about a month ago which replaced bulbs that were nine months old, so maybe that could be the cause of the white patches on some of the frags bases? I don't think that would explain the decrease in polyp extension though.

I haven't seen, what I think are acro eating flat worms on the frags, but I have on the front glass. Even if they were on the frags, I don't think I could see them.

We have two corals that have mysteriously lost flesh in places, one of them is a stylophora and I don't know what the other is, but it is a thick branched acro and both of these corals used to be toward the front glass where I see the little worms.

We unfortunalely don't have an extra tank for quarantine right now and no extra lights that would support sps outside of the main display.

I'll do as Kevin suggested for the flatworms, but first I'm going to bring one in to the store to make sure that is what it is and find out more about the risk the treatment has on the live stock.

As far as the red bugs, I might add the interceptor, but not until I get another tank to remove the shrimp and crabs. I also want the sump to be detached during the treatment so we don't loose the pods in there. Is there a possibility of the red bugs living in the sump without sps or does that water have to be treated too?

We used to have another tank and halide setup and I really wish we would have kept them now.

Thanks...

 

[brandyrb]

One more thing...

I don't think we can get a wrasse because we have two mandarins that are dependant on the pods and I don't want to depleat their food supply.

Our tank is a 125 with a 30 gal sump. I know that is pushing it for two mandarins, but we have an abundance of pods. We started this hobby two years ago and have been keeping sps for a little under a year, so we still have a lot to learn I'm sure. I just hope this ends up being more rewarding than headaches in the long run.

We have already been through acro eating crabs, a RIO blowing its top and leaking into our tank, and what we assume was biological warfare between a large toadstool and sps. We lost all the sps during the RIO thing and 80% of the sps took a serious downfall with the biological warfare, but most have recovered. Live and learn I guess.

I hope to one day have a really nice sps tank with no issues.

 

[brandyrb]

Maxx,

Thanks for the link. Man that was a lot of reading. I actually started reading that a couple of days ago, but didn't make it to the part that the red bugs were actually seen digging into the flesh of acros.

So Kevin,

Is there a particular vet in the Spokane area that understands the need for interceptor to rid acros of the red bugs?

 

[kevinpo]

Hi Brandy,
I know of at least one Vet locally that has supplied Intercepter but I don't have the name. One of my customers picks it up for me. He usually comes in every day so I can get the address/name for you.

If you don't treat the sump/refugium for red bugs I would leave it diconnected from the main system for at least 60 days to prevent reintroduction of the bugs. We treat for flatworms at the store on a regular basis even (if I see just one) and have never had a problem with corals or inverts.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[falcon41176]

dragon face pipe fish they will eat red bugs. they say low flow for the pipe fish but they love my tank. 135 gallon sps tank with 6,500 gph of flow.

 

[brandyrb]

Thanks for the info. After much thought we have decided to ride it out and see how the corals do for a while unless we can find a cheap tank/lights to seperate the coral inorder to treat them. I'll investigate the pipe fish solution a little more. I have a bully in the tank, an emporer angel, so I'd have to check and see if they are compatible.

As far as the flatworms, I'm not sure if that's what we have or not. I haven't had the best luck finding a good picture. I found a few, but they are zoomed in so close that I can't really tell.

 

[falcon41176]

just remember a fish that does a job in a reef tank is important. tang for algea,lawnmower blenny for the hard to get stuff, six line for the bad bugs , a mandarine for the bugs the six line does not get, and dragon face pipe fish to eat the bugs the six line and the mandarine does not eat. plus tangs are poop machines ,and the coral love the poop, sand sifting star fish to stir up the poop, and fish and inverts that keep the other fish healthy ,cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimp, oh and some brittle stars to to keep your rock healthy, the brittle stars reach inside the rocks and eat the left overs. not saying you have to do this but in a close system these animals help alot.

 

[Dr. Dee]

Hey if you still have red bugs here is what i use. Try useing Tropic marin pro coral cure it worked for me real good and here is a link. It works on flatworms too.

http://www.tropic-marin.com/web/english/produkte/pro-coral-cure.htm

 

[brandyrb]

Well I searched liveaquaria.com to see the description of the dragon face pipefish and six line wrasse. The site states that the pipefish do eat the unwanted red bugs and the wrasse's do eat the flatworms, but I'm still weary of compatibility. My husband and I would much rather buy a six line wrasse and one or two dragon face pipefish, but first I'd like to hear some success stories as to combatibility with what we already have.

Live aquaria says the pipefish aren't compatible with anything other than other pipefish, seahorses, corals and dartfish and inverts with caution.

The wrasse compatibility chart shows caution with most other creatures and the only definate no is mixing with pipefish.

http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=282
http://liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=375
http://liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm

So, it seems that I have a compatibility dilemma.

Here are the current tank inhabitants:
Adult Emporer Angel (the bully in the tank, chases the sailfin)
Desjardini Sailfin Tang
Bicolor Blenny
Pink Spotted Watchman Goby
Hi Fin Red Banded Goby
Sleeper Banded Goby AKA Dragon Goby
2 True Percula Clownfish & 1 Rose BTA
2 Green Mandarins
2 Cleaner Shrimp
1 dozen or so Hermit Crabs
Tons of Snails
Blue Tuxedo Urchin
2 Red Finger Gorgonians
A lot of acropora frags - a couple small colonies

The tank is a 125 w/30 gal sump and was upgraded froma 55 one year ago. The 55 before it was also up for a year.

Would you still suggest a pipefish and six line wrasse or am I out of luck because of compatibility issues?

Thanks

 

[brandyrb]

Dr. Dee,

I read about the Tropic Marin Pro-Coral Cure in the link you sent, but wouldn't this just be a dip for the corals and not a solution I can use to treat the system.?

The corals are not that bad, they don't look like they are dying or anything, but a couple of the corals aren't exactly thriving either. I say this because of decreased polyp extension and some white patches on a couple of the frags. The frags are still polyping, the polyps just aren't as extended as far or as much as they have been in the past.

I can keep that in mind for a dip for future corals. Is that what you were suggesting?

Thanks

 

[Dr. Dee]

Yeah thats true they do not eat those things,But if you just try that tropic marin pro-coral cure you will see it works.Knocks the living crap out of them.

 

[Dr. Dee]

Yeah you have to use it as a Dip!

 

[brandyrb]

Dr. Dee,

What did you mean by "Yeah thats true they do not eat those things"? If you were refering to the dragonface pipefish eating red bugs and the six line wrasse eating the flatworms, I have found information on the internet, including Live Aquaria, that says "they do" eat the bugs.

I'll keep the solution in mind for future dips.

Thanks

My husband and I would now like to try two dragonface pipefish and a six line wrasse. If compatibility fails with the dragonface pipefish can put them in the sump until we can return them. Our angel doesn't even look at the mandarins, so maybe it will be successful.

Kevin,

If you're still following this thread, what do you think? Do you carry dragonface pipefish?