refugium/sump H.O.T.

[daytonaconnecti]

http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/html/hangonback.html has anyone heard of this product? do to no space under tank, was thinking of a sump/refugium ideas.. that may help in the future with my tank...

 

[NaH2O]

When dealing with lack of space I think its nice. You can even do this on a sump. You might want to take a peek at the CPR hang on fuge or others (I'm not sure who else makes them off the top of my head). That way, you don't have to buy the miracle mud and run a mud system if you don't want to.

 

[Krish]

I agree with Nikki. Not sure if I'd want to use miracle mud in my system as I've read that it has to be replaced every so often(could be wrong though)

 

[daytonaconnecti]

doesnt look to hard to diy, has anyone done this? would this help my tank in the future,

 

[NaH2O]

I'd say that depends on what you are going to use it for. Here is a thread that might help you: Let's Talk About ~Refugiums~

Krish - the mud does need to be replaced every so often...every 18 - 24 months or something like that. There is a good post on here somewhere by SueT, that used the mud...Here it is: Single Post - Filtration Concepts. From the thread: Let's Talk About ~Filtration Concepts~

 

[daytonaconnecti]

thanks nikki, #1 as just thinking, that after my tanks goes through all of its things from going to bb, to help with algea and other things that a hang on setup, do to lack of space, would be a great way of dealing with problems in the main tank. #2 i was just thinking if its easier to build one, than buy one, but i see that they are not that bad in price. #3 do the hot systems make alot of noise and have alot of bubbles going back into the tank....

 

[NaH2O]

I've never used one, but I would think with proper baffling, the bubbles won't be a problem. Also, the flow will be slow through it, as it is a refugium. I think it would be a nice addition, and you could grow some chaeto back there, which is a nice macro (IMO), as you don't have to deal with issues caulerpa has. Great place to grow those pods, too. As per noise, don't they just use a powerhead to return water? I can't really tell looking at the photos.

 

[daytonaconnecti]

i beleve thats what is used, ck this out this is what i was thinking http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-12-Hang-On-Refugium_W0QQitemZ7738976749QQcategoryZ3212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[daytonaconnecti]

i was also thinking this will help with bad stuff in the tank, to help clean it up...any thoughts

 

[fishermann]

Bill a refuge is not near as important as good husbandry and good skimming. My own opion is that if you are after this to help keep the tank clear it is not a viable option. If you want it to grow some pods for a food source it is a help. Some people believe it contributes to algae problems in the main tank and defeats the BB system. If I was keeping softies in a BB tank I would run a refuge, but other then that I wouldn't. JMO

 

[daytonaconnecti]

cool thats waht i wanted to know,i have been blowing off the rocks and doing 20gal water changes, tank looks great other than the green and red algea....did see some tiny purple spots on the bottom of the glass in front....

 

[daytonaconnecti]

Bill a refuge is not near as important as good husbandry and good skimming. My own opion is that if you are after this to help keep the tank clear it is not a viable option. If you want it to grow some pods for a food source it is a help. Some people believe it contributes to algae problems in the main tank and defeats the BB system. If I was keeping softies in a BB tank I would run a refuge, but other then that I wouldn't. JMO

i though i was reading somewhere that if you grow something,iam not sure what it was, that it would help control nitrates, that help to feed algea...

 

[liveforphysics]

And I would say basically the opposite.
The increased population of macro and micro plankton are your best option for natural detritus removal. The macro algeas you grow in the fuge suck up the potential food for other algeas along with many compunds which skimmers cant extract.

My 'good husbandry' consists of feeding once in a while and looking at the tank. Just from curosity, when I give a section of sand a good stir, I dont have the cloud of detritus form that I see occur so often in skimmed tanks.

I belive this is because skimmers remove the crucial autotrophic stages of free algea cells which are the foundation need of a healthy micro fauna population.

Obvously both systems can obviously keep a tank alive, IMO, after haveing done both types, I would never go back to skimming and no fuge.

But, about 95% of the world disagrees with me, and I'm not an expert, so take it for what its worth.

my $0.02
-Luke

 

[daytonaconnecti]

thats what i was trying to say, i thought that you could get the algea to grow in the refuge and not as much in the main tank,,,iam too new to all of this its just confusing... i saw this http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/3389/reeftank/refugium.html

 

[fishermann]

Bill what I meant to say is that in a BB system, if you are keeping the detritus in suspension to skimmed out and every now and then vac out the heavier stuff, you shouldn't have a need for a refuge, infact I tried one one time and I couldn't get the chaeto to grow because I don't think there was enough food for it. It stayed alive but didn't increase in volume. I believe there are other means of exporting nutrients t
hat are alot more effient, a really bad a-- skimmer and good flow. A refuge as a food factory is viable.

 

[daytonaconnecti]

thats cool, iam learning every day

 

[fishermann]

Bill get you 4 doz. astrea snails and dump in your 48, they well eat algae off the rock like you won't believe. I don't put crabs in with mine because they well turn the snail over and kill it for the shell. Turbo's knock over to much stuff. Astrea's well clean the rock and poop it out where the current well brake it up and the skimmer well get it and some well be food for the corals

 

[idgy]

So these hang on refugiums can actually hang off the sump instead of the tank?

I have a 60 gallon tank what size refugium would I need for proper fuction?

thanks

 

[NaH2O]

Idgy - I'm not sure if there is a magic formula anywhere that shows what size refugium you need. Again, it all depends on what your purpose of the refugium is. How much dependence on algae do you want, and how much maintenance do you want to perform on the fuge (pruning of algaes, siphoning of detritus if BB)? These are a couple of questions that may help you decide. If you do want a fuge, do you want to have a sandbed, or BB fuge with some live rock? What kind of algae are you going to keep, if any? I have a link to the refugiums thread earlier in this thread, have a peek at it, if you haven't done so yet. There is no reason why you can't buy a hang on tank fuge and hang it on the sump, if you desire. Here is a link to Melev's 55 gallon - he has a 5 gallon fuge on it. Marc's 55 gallon tank's Sump and Refugium

Bill - aquarium husbandry is going to be your best bet, however, I understand the feeling of not being able to get ahead of the nuisance algae growth...despite your best efforts. Macro algaes may help with that - get a jump on the nuisance algae. One problem with snails is they poop, too, so as stated by fishermann in his last post, the current/flow needs to get a hold of it to kick it into the water column for use by inhabitants, or to take to the skimmer. Good ole manual labor will be really beneficial, and there is nothing wrong with going the refugium route either. Might help you feel like you are doing a little extra against the algae, but don't let the refugium make you lazy. BTW - how are you water parameters?

 

[daytonaconnecti]

So these hang on refugiums can actually hang off the sump instead of the tank?

I have a 60 gallon tank what size refugium would I need for proper fuction?

thanks

this is what i was thinking of using.. http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-12-Hang-On-Refugium_W0QQitemZ7738976749QQcategoryZ3212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem