Regal Feeding Strike

[csababubbles]

My 5" regal angel has gone on a semi feeding strike. He no longer is willing to eat out of the water column. I have been feeding him everything possible to feed a marine fish. Squid, clam, oyster, nori, octopus, tiny marine fish (from asian supermarket), shrimp, scallop, nori on a clip or rubber banded to a small rock, and just about every frozen food that Ocean Nutrition, Hikari, San Fransisco Bay, etc. make. I soak everything in either vitachem or selcon. Or sometimes nothing at all. Should I try a different additive or maybe garlic?

The ONLY thing he is still willing to eat is Ocean Nutrition Formula Two frozen food.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...58&pcatid=8158


This is a gelled food with the following ingredients:
Plankton, gel binder, spinach, shrimp, krill, clams, krill hydrolysate, lettuce, peas, sardine meal, salmon egg oil, squid, kelp, lecithin, casein, spirulina, cod liver oil, paprika, vitamins (choline chloride, ascorbic acid including stabilized vitamin C, vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamin mononitrate, folic acid, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin A acetate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, beta-carotene supplement, biotin), amino acids (dl-methionine, taurine, lysine) and trace elements of manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, and sodium selenite.

It is green colored gelled frozen food that is pretty difficult to break up, meaning it stays in solid pieces. He does not eat it out of the water column but instead I have to cut it up into very small bite size pieces and throw it into the tank. If it settles on the bottom and the little piece starts moving around with the current on the floor, he will eat it, sometimes.

So basically he won't eat anything except this one particular food (it's a green color) and only if it is on the bare-bottom glass floor of the tank and slightly moving.

This has been going on for a few weeks now. So does anyone have any ideas on how I can expand his diet? The only fish in the tank is the Regal and a 2" potter's angel that eats everything I put it but in a non aggressive manner. Both fish always hang together. The tank is a 220 with 300 lbs live rock, oversized Tunze skimmer, fuge, and six 1200gph internal powerheads. Water parameters:
ammonia and nitrite zero
nitrate <5
ph 8.1
salinity 1.026
temp: 77F
Tank was cycled with live rock and macroalgae for about 150 days before fish were introduced.

I am probably sitting in front of the tank 2 hours a day just watching them, trying to make sure they recognize me as not a threat. The room is pretty peaceful except there is a tv on the wall perpendicular to the tank. The fish does not seem distracted by the tv because sometime he goes to that side of the tank and appears to watch the tv for a good 10-15 minutes at a time. Me and my wife are the only people who go to the fish room and she does not go near the tank. I had a party a few weeks ago that may have roughly been around the time he stopped feeding normally. It was not really a party just a couple of little nephews and family came over and came down to see the fish so that may have freaked him out with all those people staring into the tank. I wish I never showed them the tank.

I read in the copperband thread it was suggested that the food may not be the problem but how its presented. I want to try to stuff some food into a couple of rock crevices around the tank tonight to see if he will pick at that. Can you guys tell me how to do this without the food coming out of the crevices and just floating around? Does the green color have to do with anything or the fact that its on the bottom slowly moving around? He goes up to other foods and looks like he is about to eat it but then takes a look at it and decides not to and swims away. Its so damn frustrating! He was eating pretty well first few weeks and now this!

 

[leebca]

This 'symptom' is common for the Regal Angel. Those that do live a while can starve to death for no apparent reason. They require a lot of attention, a peaceful tank, pristine water quality, and effort. Although truly regal, they are best left in the ocean.

I'd say you're doing about the best anyone can.

 

[csababubbles]

well i stuffed some Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef & Formula 2 cubes into some rock crevices near some caves he hangs out near and he picked at them in short order. Problem was as soon as he took a bite at it most of the food freed itself from the crevice and began floating in the water column and once it did this he was no longer interested in it. So it appears the food in rock crevice may work. Can you guys advise me on how I can do this process a little better so that he can still bite at the food but have it stay in the crevice and not float away? Which types of foods have you guys found to have the best consistency for this?

I also noticed that the first meal of the day he is more willing to eat. So it may be after a long night of no eating he is very hungry and gets over this silly not eating thing. Should I continue trying to feed him 10-15 times a day or cut back to 2-3 feeding attempts so that he gets hungry again? He seems to come out of his cave and go to a certain spot when he gets hungry so everytime he goes to that spot I attempt to feed. He seems to recognize me going to a certain spot to feed him at feeding time. Is it wise to have him get food introduced at only a certain spot or better to feed all over the tank?

Or can it be that the tank is darker (since only the actinics come on for the first hour) and he feels more comfortable eating like that? Should I cut back the time for full brightness to only an hour or two instead of 6-7 hrs a day so that it stays darker for him and make him feel more comfortable? Sorry I am being crazy about this but I have had only one fish die on me (i've been in the hobby almost a decade) and I really don't want this guy to starve & die without me giving it my all.

 

[leebca]

You are thinking along very detailed lines. That is good. This is the kind of thinking one does to keep impossible-to-keep marine fish alive in captivity. It's a job for an expert and specialist willing to put in the time and effort. It's a full time job.

The fish is probably not making the necessary adjustment to captive life. I don't know if you can do anything to make the fish do this, once it is out of the quarantine tank and into its display tank.

Large Angelfishes are used to pecking at food up to 5 times a minute throughout the day, in the wild. That is why they often don't adjust well to captivity.

You are doing all you can and anymore would be unreasonable.

Feed three times a day if you can. The push-the-food into the rock and coral trick is meant to start the fish to eating, not a routine for the life of the fish in captivity. That is, in other words, keep to your schedule and make sure if the fish dies you get it out of the aquarium before the decay causes problems in other areas. Sorry for what may seem a cold reply. :shock:

 

[csababubbles]

well some good news to share. both friday and saturday the regal has been eating much much better. i tried a trick of putting in the tank both the formula 2 cut into small pieces as well as some of my home made mixture at the same time also cut into small pieces. he went right up to the formula 2 and bit it in half, and swallowed one piece. well he tried to get the second piece and in his frenzy he ate some of the homemade mixture and he must have liked it because as soon as he got a bite of it he started eating more pieces of whatever he saw in front of him. but after a few bites he retreated to his cave. so it looks like he needs to have that taste stimulus on order to recognize the other food pieces as food for him to eat. so I have been able to get him to eat about 6 of these meals over the course of friday and saturday. lets hope this continues and it eventually clicks for him to eat more in the water column.

Lee, what are you thought of introducing a small group of anthias or a 3.5" butterfly into this tank to give him some sort of "competition" for the food, to spark his interest in eating? i know many fish will sense competition and go after food even if they don't like it but on the other hand I don't want him to not eat at all because the food will be eaten or he may be nervous to eat with more fish traffic....

 

[Snowboarda42]

IMO, I wouldn't do that quite yet. Anthias are fairly aggressive feeders. That is, they usually will go nuts for food, and sometimes stress out other fish. Since your Regal seems to have a shy personality, I would wait until he's really comfortable eating in his new home. You should be able to move around a bunch right in front of your tank while he/she is feeding, and not have it retreat to a cave. I would keep doing what you are doing until he is not so shy when you're around, then try introducing a couple new fish(QT FIRST!!). After the addition, if he is too stressed from the new additions to eat, you'll most likely have to pull the new ones out and QT and possibly return them.

 

[csababubbles]

i kinda agree with you about the too frenzied activities of the anthias but how about a calm butterfly that i have in another display tank? competition is a very persuasive thing for shy eaters.

 

[Snowboarda42]

That sounds better, but I'd still keep feeding him like you're doing until he eats like you want him to.

If he adapts well to the Butterfly, then I'd say go ahead and try something a little more active and see what happens. But be ready to pull the new addition if something goes wrong.

 

[leebca]

Speaking in generalities, large Angels are not easily duped into eating by having other fish eating around them. I use dither fish myself, and have found that they rarely help a large Angel.

If the Angel is shy still, it will not rise to compete for food like some other fishes might. Once (and if) it gets to eating vigorously, then this shyness will have little or no influence on it getting its fair share.

 

[csababubbles]

this past weekend I introduced a school of cardinal fish that I have had in another tank for about 6 months. They have a tendency to just kinda of float in the middle of the tank by themselves. Then at night they get together in a school formation and stay that way until the lights come on. weird. anyways, with these fish out in the open just kinda floating in the water column has tremendously increased the Regal Angel's bravery. He now regularly swims throughout the tank and actually gets into the whole feeding frenzy thing. he always stayed low and near the overhangs and caves but now he often swims high in the water column and even came to the top of the aquarium. Still not eating vigorously but its getting better as time goes by. he does seem to get very excited when I feed and goes after many food items but when he gets ready to bite, about 80% of the time he will back down and not bite into it. he is eating ON Formula 2 fairly regularly though. maybe i'll try some peas since they look similar to the green formula 2. i also got some sinking algae wafers, maybe he will try that.

 

[Maxx]

updates?

Nick

 

[csababubbles]

sinking wafers completely ignored. goes nuts during feeding time now. is willing to eat a lot more foods now. very picky about the size of the food but if its the right size he will eat it. it appears the cardinal group has really made him feel more secure in his new home since he is swimming all over the tank now and gets into a food frenzy behavior that he never did before. lee said this rarely happens with large angels so it looks as if I simply lucked out.

 

[Maxx]

What all are you feeding him? Pics?

Nick

 

[csababubbles]

Here is a pic of the regal and the potter in one shot. It is under actinics so you don't really get to see the incredible brightness of the regals colors but im at work still so its all i got on this computer. Regal is eating formula 2 like a champ, i have a mix of foods that I mix up in a cup and add vitamins/fats to which includes about 30 different ingredients ranging from whole sea foods to multiple types of macro algaes, which he eats bit and pieces of so i am not sure which exact ingredient he is eating.

Great news update: Regal has accepted his first piece of real sponge that I collected from ocean. My idol has been eating this sponge for the longest time and he's fat as a cow. Keeping fingers crossed. btw she was collected from the solomon islands so she is grey chested.

 

[csababubbles]

Update:

This fish is killing me. For the past few months he has reverted to only accepting Ocean Nutrition Formula 2 frozen cubes again. Its the exact same routine everyday. He swims to the top left corner of tank and stays there until I come over and feed him. He will eat exactly three small bites of the ocean nutrition that I have broken off. After the third piece he swims off. He will come back in about 45 min to an hour and we will do the whole routine again (when I am home).

He refuses to eat more then 3 pieces at a time and refuses to eat it if it has any other food with it. I try to add other little pieces of food with it or completely replace the food with another type and he won't eat it. He is really only seeking out those little green pieces of Formula 2. In the past 2 months since I last posted he has eaten maybe 5 pieces of another food total.

Is there anything you guys can suggest that would allow him to break free of this routine? I don't know how long he can live off the nutritional content of Formula 2 (even though I soak it in vitamins and fats).

 

[leebca]

Sad to say that this fish has less than a 10% survival in home aquariums beyond one year. That is, for 100 fish that are imported, less than 10 are still alive in the home aquarium. It's one of those fishes I've recommended be left in the sea until such time as they can be tank bred.

It seems you are doing your best. That is just the way the fish is. A slow starvation (from a lack of nutrition) is the way most of them depart our care.