Retro-fitting L3 to DE

[jlehigh]

Okay... I have had a bee in my bonnet to try to retro-fit an L3 reflector for a few months and I am ready to take the dive, but I need help both conceptually and physically.

My initial requirements for the design:- Accommodates varying bulb sizes
- Bulbs are mounted with the center of the bulb aligned with the center of the reflector.
- The bulb is mounted the same distance from the top as the SE bulbs

WHY!!
Because I am curious!! Theoretically the light output over the distribution of the reflector should not surpass that of SE bulbs. I concluded this by looking at Sanjay's bulb only measurements for both DE and SE bulbs. HOWEVER I just so happen to like the coloration 400W 20K DE bulbs obtain. It also wouldn't hurt to gain the extra spread and convert from 4 lights to 3 granted the first retro is successful. It ain't called a hobby for nothing!

My initial SWAG at the design entails a simple "L" shaped bracket welded or screwed into the reflector. The legs of the bracket would be two rods drilled and welded or screwed to the top of the reflector. The bottom of the "L" will be a rectangular steel plate 150% the length of the DE sockets with routed slots. The socket can then screw or bolt to the bracket and when loosened be able to slide back and forth accommodating varying bulb lengths.

The wiring will be run from the sockets, down or through (if hollow) the bracket rods and through the top wall of the reflector.

I am open to all feedback on my initial design.

HELP
Where I really can use help from the locals is with the metallurgy since I do not have any metal welding nor cutting equipment. If folks know of standard hardware suited for my application by all means let me know.

Okay... lets hear what you think!!

 

[bradreef]

If you get this done. Scrape the labels off it and sell it for double on RC as limited edition DE LA3

 

[bc_slc]

That is great. I would love to see before and after pics of the tank with the diff pendants. If it works out, you should send your design to sanjay and ask him to test it out.

Mat

 

[jlehigh]

hehehe thanks guys. A Sanjay test would be cool then again I wouldn't want my perception of the performance to be hindered

One modification I thought of. I want the mounting plates to be able to slide up and down the rods. This will enable me to test performance at different distances from the reflector. I thought of this because SE bulbs are mounted rather far from the top of the L3, however DE bulbs are mounted very closely to DE pendant reflectors. I want to be able to identify the best distance.

I am currently trying to see if a friends, friend of a friend with welding and cutting tools is willing to help me out

 

[szidls]

You got PM John.
Scott

 

[jlehigh]

Warning! Progress ahead!

I have to wonder why Pacific Garden Supply said trying to design an L3 DE pendant was too difficult.. I guess I'll soon know the answer or make them look like sissies Nah I know it may have simply been cost prohibitive but from what I got from talking with them they were just trying to retrofit the existing SE adjustable bracket to support DE and I don't think that was the best plan..

 

[jlehigh]

Update: I have confirmed the 250W DE sockets are the same as the 400W. A new challenge is lurking though, and that is to ensure the glass shield will effectively shield the UV light. According to PFO they use UV tempered glass. When I look at the glass shields on my PFO pendants they look like standard green glass..

Does anyone have advice or resources covering the subject of UV shielding?

BTW: I invited Luke at Pacific Garden supply to join us over here. Maybe he will make a cameo

 

[jlehigh]

I just found this product:
http://www.abrisa.com/downloads/uv_hot_mirror.pdf

This is tempered non-reflective UV glass which appears to pass the spectrum I am most interested in (420-500nm) effectively... I'm sure their are allot of suited products.. it's a matter of being abel to get my hands on the material...

I contacted abrisa as a product developer working to perform beta testing on a concept design... "I'm sorry we only deal with industrial companies" So un-American What's a hobbyist to do...

 

[jlehigh]

anybody else reading this but me?

One though I had is that paintings/documents are often shielded by this protective glass which I believe shields UV.

Sure eough.. Art.com provides framing and shielding options for pictures you buy from them. One shielding option is "Non Glare Glass with UV shielding" I'll see if they can sell just the glass, and call some local art places (Michaels ect).

 

[reedman]

John, they make home windows that block UV as well, but I'm not sure if it is the right UV (UV A vs. UV B). You may want to check with a larger glass shop that deals in residential glass.

 

[jlehigh]

Thanks Reed! I am not familiar with the UV types A, and B?? Which type should I be aiming to shield.

BTW: Michaels sells two grades of non-glare UV protective glass made by tru-view. Both are spendy: Best = 20"X20" - 75.60 Next Best = 38.86

 

[reedman]

from http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/lighting/fixtures.htm

Shielding

Was just mentioned in thermal terms. Also of concern is life-damaging ultraviolet light produced. Real fast here; U-V light is classified into three types on the basis of wavelength. In nanometers these are:

UV A: 320-400 nm, UV B: 280-320 nm, UV C : 200-280 nm

Some UV "A" range is useful, necessary for some light-using life; "B" and "C" are dangerous/harmful. UV "C" is absorbed by the planet's celebrated ozone layer; within it's band, 257 nm is the energy produced by UV sterilizers. UV "B" can be halted by glass and water, is very destructive to nucleic acids (life) and photosynthetic activity. UV "A" is effectively filtered out for the most part by special filters and bulb coatings provided by manufacturers. I only will install and address the use of metal halides with the use of UV filters, even though they may coated/engineered to be used without them. This added protection against radiation poisoning may require more shielding action and periodic cleaning, but is well worth the "cost" in preventing you and your livestock from "burning". Also of concern is the explosive effect of these 'high-pressure' light sources getting splashed, broken by splashing water, or cumulative bubble-mist.

 

[jlehigh]

Awesome. Thanks Reed. I have a reasonable source for the glass cut to size now. Ben Franklin has the same products Michael's has made by Tru-view for about 20.00 less. I verified that the UV shielding protects all but 3% of UV-A.

I am wondering if the glass used in my current pendants is even non-reflective! I may just get allot more par out of having higher grade glass.. I'll try to find out the exacts type of glass PFO is using.

 

[jlehigh]

I spoke with PFO. This information could be significant alone. PFO uses standard UV protectant glass. This means it is reflective and can potentially impact not only the PAR but the spectrum as well!

The glass I plan to use not only shields UV but also is a clearer glass like Starfire with anti refelctive qualities. I would venture to say if you use DE bulbs in a shielded pendant you could very well benefit from swapping out the glass for about 20bux per. Of course I have not seen this proven but the idea is promising.

 

[PGS]

reading?

anybody else reading this but me?

Of course people are reading this

-Luke @ PGS

 

[jlehigh]

hehehe Okay Good. Glad you paid a visit Luke!

I ordered a DE socket which will ship probably tomorrow. I will pick-up some glass this weekend and THEN the fun will start

 

[bradreef]

waiting for the funnn

 

[DisturbedReefer]

anybody else reading this but me?

Probably many more than you think Waiting for the fun and wishing you much success!

 

[jlehigh]

Well more information on glass... It looks like anti-reflective glass would inhibit the light transmission. I have an inquiry out to the manufacturer but from the description below I think I have my answer.

"Reflection Control ® glass employs etching on only one side, eliminating the reflection problem with only a subtle softening of clarity."

So I am back to looking at your fairly typical Low-E glass which is reccomended by metal halide manufactures to be put in MH DE fixtures. Speedy Glass can have the glass ordered and delivered in about three days for 25.00 per piece. I am still going to run by Michael's or Ben Franklin to talk to the framers and see what reccomendation they have since art framing is a very big contributor to the growth in glass technology.

 

[jlehigh]

I stand corrected... Tru-vu called me back and reported that the "museum glass" blocks 98% of UV, and has anti reflection which still allows for 96% light transmission. If true this reduces the impact glass shields have on PAR by 50%. This was determined by using Sanjay's spectral analysis plots for the 400DE 20K bulb shielded and unshielded.

Sounds great right? Well 50% of 8% is still only a 4% PAR increase The same is true for 14K and 10K spectrums.