Return Pump Flow

[tyson256031]

Whats the average return pump flow your looking for from your sump to your tank?

System specs:

220 custom tank
50 gallon sump
20 gallon frag tank

All these are attached to one system, i was looking at the pan world 40PX at 480 GPH flow.
The sump will have the following equipment if this matters:

Carbon Reactor
Bio Pellet Reactor
SWC 250 S2 Skimmer
CA Reactor

Thanks!

 

[jrgilles]

I would figure out how much water your protein skimmer can handle. Set the return pump flow to match that (after accounting for head pressure)

 

[tyson256031]

The skimmer has two sicce PSK-2500 pumps on it. With each being around 660GPH I think 1320 GPS is alot for a sump to have flowing through it. that would like a river IMO.

 

[Frankie]

Are you going internal or external?

For a tank that size I would consider 4x turn over rate of 880 gph. I do agree with Rob's assessment of getting the skimmer raw intake to be as close as possible with the return water rate for better contact time, but those numbers don't work for your system.

Remember not to count on return water for flow and to use it more for surface agitation.

Frank

 

[tyson256031]

I was planning on external. I will have 2 Mp40's in the tank for flow. THats why I was thinking slower water through the sump with around 500GPH. I will look for something around the 900GPH, Thanks guys!

 

[jrgilles]

Frankie, I like what you said about surface agitation. When I originally did my plumbing, I directed the return into the rocks left and right to help with flow. I should total aim them up towards the surface for agitation. Would be way more beneficial I think. Have some tunze in there now blasting now, so the return pump is adding almost nothing to flow. Thanks

 

[tyson256031]

Thanks guys! I will plan on doing a 1100 pan world pump since they are out of the 1000. Then I will have the 2 Mp40's in the tank.

 

[Skimmy]

The skimmer has two sicce PSK-2500 pumps on it. With each being around 660GPH I think 1320 GPS is alot for a sump to have flowing through it. that would like a river IMO.

wait!!!!
sicce psk 2500's only process about 250-300gph of water AFTER you inject air into them, so the amount of water processed per hour from the skimmer is like 500-600 gph total.

 

[tyson256031]

Nice catch, i was going off what i found online. LOL thank you for this as i was going to order my pump in the morning.

 

[Skimmy]

and i would personally recommend an eheim 1262 for a return pump,
about 700gph @ 4' of head pressure
will last for 10 years if you take care of it, quiet, submersible and easier to do plumbing.

 

[Frankie]

Good stuff Skimmy. I was going to mention the true intake of that skimmer but didn't see the point. His total water volume does not allow the return to match the skimmer.

The Eheim 1260 would be a perfect return pump for this system. And it can be used external or internal. The Quietones are also a good pump for this purpose.

 

[TJL]

Ya know what I'm going to recommend, high-flow sump all the way baby! Why would you ever not have the return pump be a part of the flow in you DT ??? There are quite a few high GPH energy efficient return pumps available like Iwaki/Panword/Eheim etc... High-flow sumps IMO/IME are healthier/safer setups than having em be frog water where anaerobic conditions could occur especially when using Bio-Pellet Reactors which would greatly benefit from added oxygenation. Since there is no way other than having a inline skimmer proccess all your overflow its proccessing capacity really isn't/shouldn't be a factor. How many low-flow sumps have you seen covered in Cyano trapping lots of nasty gasses over the sandbed or decaying macro-algaes? I have never had this happen in my sump/fuge nor any macro die-offs in 20+ years. There is an abundance of pods, snails, stars, worms, sponges and tunicates running in my river running through it refugium. My running system has 950-gph (Iwaki WMD-30RLXT) through a 40g refugium about 30g's net, new system will have about 1070-gph (Panword 100PX-X) running through an approx 55g's sump/fuge.
Anyhow, just more food for thought both applications work... I just have much more confidence in a high-flow setup in my systems.

Cheers, Todd

 

[tyson256031]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I need to go with an external pump system, i don't have room in my sump for one with all the other equipment. What is a good external pump thats not crazy in power consumption LOL.

If i need to i can drop one of the pumps on the skimmer and make it the 250S in stead of the of S2 model... I might do this in the beginning anyways when i have such a small bioload.

 

[Skimmy]

Ya know what I'm going to recommend, high-flow sump all the way baby! Why would you ever not have the return pump be a part of the flow in you DT ??? There are quite a few high GPH energy efficient return pumps available like Iwaki/Panword/Eheim etc... High-flow sumps IMO/IME are healthier/safer setups than having em be frog water where anaerobic conditions could occur especially when using Bio-Pellet Reactors which would greatly benefit from added oxygenation. Since there is no way other than having a inline skimmer proccess all your overflow its proccessing capacity really isn't/shouldn't be a factor. How many low-flow sumps have you seen covered in Cyano trapping lots of nasty gasses over the sandbed or decaying macro-algaes? I have never had this happen in my sump/fuge nor any macro die-offs in 20+ years. There is an abundance of pods, snails, stars, worms, sponges and tunicates running in my river running through it refugium. My running system has 950-gph (Iwaki WMD-30RLXT) through a 40g refugium about 30g's net, new system will have about 1070-gph (Panword 100PX-X) running through an approx 55g's sump/fuge.
Anyhow, just more food for thought both applications work... I just have much more confidence in a high-flow setup in my systems.

Cheers, Todd

well, i personally disagree with your claim that a high flow sump is somehow cleaner or healthier...
"cleaner and healthier" suggest parameters that are probably more the result of husbandry than sump flow.
and i personally have never had issues with gas exchange/oxygenation, as all that occures on the surface of (my) aquarium it's self with tunze pumps, and in my skimmer.
i have never had cyano problems in the sump(5x w/ eheim 1250 and ball valve), and i would suggest that that is probably more the result of detritus build up
either in the display of sump. I personally actually CLEAN the sump once every couple months with wet/dry vac, and hose out my filter sock once a week, as well as break down the skimmer for cleaning every 2-3 month or so, so no algae/detritus issues here with a slow flow sump, and also no salt creep, extra noise, or waste of power. my 20g display has 1400 gph total flow in display. where it belongs, and my biopellets reactor, skimmer, and GAC reactor can treat all the water going through my sump, instead of a bunch of water travelling so fast that it never gets picked up by filtration and goes unfiltered back into the display tank.

 

[tyson256031]

Good info skimmy, For your Biopellets, do you run both a fuge and biopellets, or just one?

 

[Skimmy]

i run in the sump;
filter sock on input (about half the time depending upon cleaning/maintenance, and clean weekly)
skimmer
biopellets
Gac in reactor.
but i wouldnt mind adding a photosynthetic refugium or non- photosynthetic cryptic zone, or both...

 

[Frankie]

Hey skimmy, why is your signature not a link? I went to click on it but it is just a picture. BTW, I don't know who either of those people are in your sig Though the first one looks familiar~

 

[IPisces]

Hey skimmy, why is your signature not a link? I went to click on it but it is just a picture. BTW, I don't know who either of those people are in your sig Though the first one looks familiar~

Haha...I wanted to ask that too. I recognize the first one too, but just cant think of his name. Dont recognize the girl at all. Who are they?

 

[pyton]

1100 pan world pump is way too much pump for that tank. The Pan World is a pressure pump and it will cause tons of flow, too much flow.

I would recommend a Eheim 1262, or a Mag12. With the skimmer you have and the processing of those skimmer pumps you could go up to a Mag 18 or equal. I personally would not do that but you could.
I personally have had better results from the Mag line of pump, if you do go Mag make sure you get POND pump, the only difference is a longer cord.

 

[tyson256031]

Can you use the mag as an external?