Setting up an SPS tank...Kalk?

[returnofsid]

Hi all,
I'm in the process of setting up a 75 gallon reef tank that will be predominately SPS but will also have LPS. I'm taking my time to set it up correctly as I've never had SPS and need to continue doing some research. I am going with a 6 bulb Tek T5 lighting fixture. I know, I know...everyone's going to say I need halides...I'm going to try the T5 out. If it doesn't work, I'll put it on the 75 planted FW tank I plan for the near future and upgrade the 75 reef to MH.
My questions are regarding Kalk. I understand that with SPS it's really important to keep calcium and Alk. levels consistent. I have never done anything with either of these in my other reef tanks which are predominately softies with some LPS. I am using a sump and would like to consider dripping Kalk. I don't have a lot of room under the stand and above the sump for a Kalk container but I shouldn't need anything too big should I? I was thinking something that could hold a couple gallons. Now, I've read that when mixing, it needs to be stirred gently. Then I've also read that you can mix it by shaking it up. Which is it? lol. I'm going to have to rely on a gravity drip and I'll figure out a way to control the drip rate with airline tubing. What I'm still unsure of is what type of container to use...how to "plumb" it and such. I really don't want to buy a paristalsic pump as they appear to be quite expensive. I was thinking something along this lines but with a lil' larger container....Say I use a water jug of some kind....mix the Kalk with RO water, I'd drill a small hole in the cap the size of rigid airline tubing. I would place a length of rigid tubing and glue into the lid in a manner that when the container is upside down, the rigid tubing would be far enough into the container that any settled Kalk wouldn't be sucked up. Flexible airline tubing would be connected to the rigid tubing on the outside of the container. Once mixed, I'd put the lid on and hang the container upside down in the stand and above the water level of the sump. Then I would hang the flexible tubing into the sump. I'd either use a knot system or an adjustable airflow meter thingy to adjust the drip. I would leave the valve closed long enough to give the Kalk time to settle down and then drip into the sump overnight. Does this sound about right?

I do have Mother's Pickling Lime...can that be used? Seems to be a lot cheaper. I'm totally new to the SPS thing and have no clue how to mix or administer Kalk. I've heard that it can be dripped overnight....and I've also heard that it can be dripped 24/7. If dripped 24/7, would I need two container set-ups so I can interchange them? Also, I've read that the Kalk is only really usable for about 24 hours after mixing. Does that mean I'd have to mix Kalk every day? Hmmmm...any help, suggestions or advice would be great!!! Thanks all!!!

 

[olsaltybastard]

I have the same lights over my 125 sps tank, so I will assure you that they will work just fine.

I don't use limewater for topoffs anymore, but will gladly give a few pointers to help you out.

I have noticed that Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime leaves a lot of undissolved residue at the bottom of a container. I'm not sure if all products do this, but either way don't add this stuff to the tank. My topoff consists of a 44g rubbermade trash can, a rigid tube that sits about 4 inches off the bottom of the container (this prevented the residue from getting sucked up) and soft airline tubing connected to a pump. The pump is connected to a float switch and topoffs continue 24/7 in small doses.

I recommend starting with less lime and work your way up; about 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of RO/DI water. You can always add more when necessary.

 

[scytale]

Going to start using Kalk myself, so I'm hitching on

I have found this thread about a DIY kalk dripper
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=43686#post43686

And have read that many people use kalkwasser primarily at night to help maintain a higher pH and prevent the overnight/early morning low pH swings....which is why I'm looking into kalk now.

(And really hope the RFStaff create a kalk "sticky" thread!)

 

[mungus]

Here is a link to about the simplest DIY kalk dripper you can find. http://www.reefland.com/forum/diy/8...2-14-05-a.html?highlight=DIY+kalkwasser+doser
Made by kevinpo. I built one of these and have been using it for over a year. I love it and it only took 5 mins to make.

Brian

 

[returnofsid]

Thanks for the help and the links. Olsalty, I was under the impression that unless your mixture does leave residue in the bottom of the container, you're not mixing to saturation...and it doesn't do any good. I could be mistaken but I thought that's what my reading has been telling me. I thought you had to mix enough to saturate the solution....which ends up leaving the residue at the bottom...the residue that get left behind after the drip process.

 

[olsaltybastard]

From what I understand, saturation occurs at about 2 teaspoons per gallon. I have never had a need to go above 1 teaspoon per gallon, and this still left a whole bunch of stuff at the bottom of my container (even though it was mixed up to 24 hours prior to use.)

I guess the best way to find out is to dissolve 1 teaspoon into a gallon of water, shake it around, and see if anything settles out.

 

[returnofsid]

Guess I'll have to experiment with it. Did you get good results from your mix? From everything I've read, using a solution that isn't "saturated and settled" isn't really doing a lot of good....and I've read that your solution needs to be used within 24 hours of mixing it or it looses a lot of it's beneficial properties from being in contact with air...although, I suppose if you had it in an air tight container that wouldn't become a problem.

 

[roblou]

Hi returnofsid: although I think you've already seen it, in case not, here is a article by Randy Holmes-Farley titled "What your grandmother never old you about lime": http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php

Among other things, it discusses the potency of kalkwasser over time (you're right, keep the container covered to prevent degradation).

I started with a drip system. I bought the Kent Aquadoser: http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=KENT-AQUADOSE&Category_Code=Dosers , which is basically a fancy aquarium IV drip system. Your DIY description would basically be the same thing.

I soon grew tired of having to make new kalkwasser everyday, refilling the aquadoser, etc. So, I am now using a Tam Aqualifter pump: http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...oduct_Code=KENT-AQUADOSE&Category_Code=Dosers , connected to a autotop off float-valve setup: http://www.autotopoff.com/products.html (I have the double switch sump model). With this setup, I make up 5g at a time, which lasts about 5 days or so. I keep an extra bucket of kalkwasser on hand, so I can switch the old one out as it gets close to being empty. That setup cost me about $65.
The Aquadoser drip system was $20. If I had it all to do over again, I'd go straight to the pump/autotop off system & skip the drip system.

The only downside to using the Aqualifter pump is the fact it isn't very strong, so if you have much more than 2-3 feet of head pressure, it will probably be ineffective. I had this issue with my 45g sumpless setup when I had my 5g bucket at floor level & tried to use the aqualifter pump to lift from floor level to top of tank. I ended up resolving this by raising my 5g bucket using 2 milk crates. Another way could have been using a peristaltic pump as you mentioned above.

Oh, also BTW, I use Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime and have noticed no ill effects. I drip kalkwasser for 100% of my topoff for both my 90g SPS tank and my 45g softy/LPS tank. With both tanks, I still have to supplement with Randy's DIY 2-part solutions to keep Ca and Alk in check (the kalkwasser alone is not enough): http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

I think you're on the right track by dripping kalkwasser. The last bit of advice I can give you is to track your tank's Ca and Alk consumption on a daily basis for a while. If you know your rate of consumption before dripping kalkwasser, you can compare after you start dosing to see how much the kalkwasser is offsetting your consumption. You'll then be able to determine whether you need to supplement in addition to kalkwasser.

hth & good luck!
rob

 

[olsaltybastard]

I always had good results when I used limewater that wasn't saturated. I eventually had to up the amount of lime as the tank grew, but nothing to indicate that anything less than fully saturated was bad or useless.

I just keep the lid on the Brute container. Again, there were no ill effects to require any changes in the system.

Best of luck in your venture!!

 

[Jumpincactus]

Been dripping Wages for a year now. I use two teaspoons to a gal of RO/DI. My tank only evaps a gall a day. So I drip a gallon a night. I have never had any problems at all.

I just found a two gallon plastic jug drilled a hole in the bottom it hangs in the back of the tank. I used a stainless steel airline sleeve with a flared end pushed the airline over the smooth end then fed the tube down thru the opening in the bottom of course as I did that I had packed the flared end with epoxy putty and then epoxied the outer seam and then I use a funnel to refill the kalk. I vary the drip rate using a small plastic compression type valve from home depot. You've probably see them they are small with a white body and a blue quater turn valve, like the ones you see on RO units.

Every 2 weeks or so I clean the vessel out by turning off the valve of course and then pour about a pint of white vinegar into the container. The vinager breaks down the hard deposites cleans the airline and its good to go. After I flush the vinegar out into a small container I chase it all with RO. You will find the vinegar rinse necassary about every 2 weeks as the kalk deposits in the airline and valve will clog and slow your drip rate.

Kalk can be kept for weeks if kept tightly covered. Co2 causes it to breakdown. I have also noticed although cannot prove why but my P04 has non-existant since I began dripping kalk

 

[Slickdonkey]

Personally I found kalk to be a big pain in the ass. Many many people have come to the same conclusion and end up buying a Ca reactor anyway. They are much more convenient, especially for larger tanks. The only negative is that it will lower your pH somewhat.

Kalk is also really dangerous stuff. Yes, it can be used safely but there's always the possibility something will go wrong and trust me... you don't want to have any slip-ups or equipment failures or it will wipe out your tank. If you're bent on using it, try to build some fail-safes into the system.

 

[MikeS]

Thanks for the help and the links. Olsalty, I was under the impression that unless your mixture does leave residue in the bottom of the container, you're not mixing to saturation...and it doesn't do any good. I could be mistaken but I thought that's what my reading has been telling me. I thought you had to mix enough to saturate the solution....which ends up leaving the residue at the bottom...the residue that get left behind after the drip process.

I have found that the amount of residue left at the bottom has more to do with the grade or quality of the kalk mix than the amount used. I have a very high Ca demand in my tank, so I drip "saturated" (ie. 2 tsp/gal) kalk as all my makeup water. I have noticed that the higher grade kalk mixes like Seachem or Warner's leave a lot less residue at the bottom of the container than the same dosage of a food grade calcium hydroxide mix like Mrs. Wages. Also, with the higher grades of kalk, I see a lot fewer of the little black specks in the residue, which is a good thing as these tend to be metallic in nature. Not that there is anything wrong with using pickling lime, I used it for many years.

MikeS

 

[spongebob lover]

i'm gonna follow this thread because i'm in the process of changing my tank to lps dominated with sps .

i like the idea of the kent dripping thingy .
One thing that i worry about all this is, what's gonna happen if you ever go on a holiday and there's no one to top off your water dood...... i guess just pray the corals won't be dead by the time you get home or train your dog to top off the tank .
hmm i think i read somewhere someoe was setting up a calcium reactor and because she/he didn't set it up right, it wiped the whole tank .
Anyways i'll shut up and just read .

 

[MikeS]

One thing that i worry about all this is, what's gonna happen if you ever go on a holiday and there's no one to top off your water dood...... i guess just pray the corals won't be dead by the time you get home

This shouldn't be a problem. Low calcium won't kill corals, they just won't be building much skeletal structure when the Ca is low. I've had mine dip well below 300ppm Ca many times when I've been on vacation, with no ill effects on the coral health. As for using kalk in an SPS tank (or any tank for that matter) it's imortant to monitor the Ca/alk/Mg levels so you can determine the proper dosage (too much Ca is not good for coral tissue growth). My tank, for example, kalk alone does not meet the Ca demands. I have to suppliment the kalk with calcium chloride and baking soda about once a week to drive those levels back up to NSW values based on my tank's salinity. Also, it's important to monitor your Mg levels when dosing kalk, as kalk tends to drive Mg levels down. I test my Mg levels monthy and adjust to NSW values based on my salinity accordingly.

MikeS

 

[returnofsid]

Well, I've been using Randy's 2 part Recipe and stopped dosing Kalk until I get things totally balanced. I've got my Ca sitting pretty steady between 420-435 and my Alk at about 10. dkh. I need to purchase a Mg test kit. So far, things have stayed steady for almost 2 weeks. Once I feel confident that I have things balanced and steadily balanced, I'll start dripping Kalk with my make up water. I'll still supplement with Randy's Recipe as needed. MikeS, how does this sound so far?

 

[MikeS]

Sid, you are probably ok to start dripping kalk now...one nice thing about kalk is that you are adding calcium and carbonate alkalinity in "balance", ie since your Ca and alkalinity are now balanced, the use of kalk will not cause an imbalance. I'd start with 1tsp/gal kalk mix, test your tank daily for Ca (preferably at roughly the same time every day) and adjust the strength of the kalk up or down accordingly. Once you get it dialed in, you'll need to test Ca and alk less frequently, and make adjustments with either more kalk (to a max of 2 tsp/gal) or with a 2 part Ca/alk suppliment. I use calcium chloride and baking soda (baking soda because my pH tends to ride a bit on the high side).

MikeS