T5 Lighting questions

[returnofsid]

I've recently purchased a 75 gallon tank and would like to set it up with the proper lighting. I would like to be able to keep some SPS but mainly LPS and softies. I'd also like to be able to keep a clam or 2. The only lighting I've had any experience with is Compact Flourescents.
I'm currently open to all kinds of advice as I'm not at all familiar with anything but CF lighting. I just ran across this
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...currentnovaextremehighoutputfixture4x54watt48

and am wondering if it would be adequate. I'd love to be able to get MH lighting but I just don't think I can swing the finances to do so...lol. I've heard that T5 lighting falls between CF and MH lighting. I have no idea if this is correct or not. Any help would be great!! Also, if I were to go with MH lighting, would I just use a pendant or 2 over the tank? If this is the case, where would I put the actinics? I just really don't know how to set something like this up. Thanks for any help or advice anyone can offer.

Michael

 

[Scooterman]

I would think it is a good start comparing them to PC or CF lighting, T5's will do a very good job for that price. I seem to remember that these are a good quality but I have no experience myself with them, It wouldn't hurt to call & ask about them.

 

[MikeS]

T5's are good lights, but a lot of mixed reviews and opinions on them out there...

Watt for watt...they are as efficient as PCF's...color-wise, they seem to display similar spectrums to T-12 NO's and VHO's. However, one arguement I have heard about them is that the smaller tube diameter (t-5 vs t-12) "bends" the light, just like a PCF bulb, affecting the useable spectrum and visual quality of the bulb. Also, you need a lot of them to produce the same amount of PAR that a MH setup of similar wattage will produce.

Most of what I have read about them is favorable, however. But...I would say if you want to keep some SPS, and have the flexibility down the road to expand to clams and such...I'd honestly look at MH's first....

MikeS

 

[Reefbound]

I have the Nova extreme 8 x 54 unit and the only thing I have not been able to keep so far is Blastomussa's... Im not sure if its toooo much light for them.
One thing I have noticed is the long acclimation/adjustment needed before they thrive and explode with growth... I have 0 complaints other than how bright they are. This is a short list of whats in my 75 now.

Green BTA
Rose BTA
Devils hand,
Pink frogspawn
Stylophora (?)
Candycane corals
Yellow Fiji leather
Galaxea coral
Tridacna Crocea
mini torch coral
two zoa colonies
pumping Zenia
assorted shrooms
Gold porites coral
Purple tip Acropora
Pink hammer coral
Millepora

 

[JasonD]

It doesn't appear that unit comes with independent reflectors. I have read that is a must to get max out of each bulb.

 

[jezzeaepi]

With any light, its going to be the reflector that determines its quality. I am pretty sure the nova uses just one reflector for all 4 of the bulbs. The t5 fixtures that have individual parabolic reflectors(and upgraded bulbs) will yield 35-45% more PAR then those without them. If getting that extra par is important to you then youll be spending about 50% more to do so but you will also have the benefit of choosing your bulbs so you can get the exact color you want.
T5's cant punch through the water like MH's do. If its a standard 75 then you would have to keep all your light demanding corals in the upper half if you want to see decent growth.
T5's dont put heat into the tank like MH's do. Thats the biggest advantage of t5's imho. Even if you live in a relativley cool area, chances are you will NEED a chiller in the hot days of summer if you run MH. A high end t5 unit with the best bulbs will cost about as much as a MH set up, but will only put out about 50-70% of the light. Once you factor in the price of a chiller, and the cost of running it, the T5's are now much cheaper.

Peace

 

[revance]

I would definitely go with one that has separate reflectors for each bulb.

T5s are essentially the same as CFs but they are linear rather than bent, which blocks less light. Combine that with a good quality reflector for each bulb and you end up with much better lighting. If you don't have the nice individual reflectors, you are losing most of the benefits of T5s.

 

[returnofsid]

Well, the units I've been looking at have a single reflector...they all do as a matter of fact. However, they are bent in a "gull" pattern to form a reflector around each bulb. From what I understand, the reflector system is very good, except for the Nova units, which don't bend around each bulb. I'm looking particularly at a 48" Tek Light with 6X54W T5 HO bulbs. You can mix and match from a large variety of bulbs to get the color and results you need. The unit will end up costing me about $300.00 and I'll need to purchase bulbs seperately. However, I also understand that T5 HO bulbs last about 3 times longer than MH or PC bulbs. There's also an 8 bulb unit available for about $80.00 more.

 

[MikeS]

However, I also understand that T5 HO bulbs last about 3 times longer than MH or PC bulbs.

On lumin output perhaps...but I have yet to see anything that suggests that the spectrum of the bulb doesn't shift any slower than VHO's, PC's, ect....

MikeS

 

[Scooterman]

To date there isn't anything that can compare to a MH, when you crunch the numbers, replacing lamps, & the little difference in power consumption/efficiency isn't enough to argue about. The MH wins, suck it up & get a nice retro for your tank, just do one at a time

Disclaimer:!
Above statement is just a formed opinion & user has rights to own expressions & opinions which he isn't responsible for & withheld upon (whatever that means)

 

[jezzeaepi]

"On lumin output perhaps...but I have yet to see anything that suggests that the spectrum of the bulb doesn't shift any slower than VHO's, PC's, ect....

MikeS
"
I intend on proving this, atleast to myself. I cant say my scientific method would be good enough to satisfy everyone, but I am taking readings from my T5's at 0 months, 6 months and 9 months via a spectrometer. If there is a shift, I will see it. I dont expect to see much of a shift after 9 months on regularly driven T5's. If your using overdriven ones, then yah I think 6-8 months is a good estimate.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Dont listen to them sid get the T5's you will be happy. The tek unit is a very good unit.
By being able to use 6 different bulbs, you will blow away the look of the single spectrum you get off a MH. I recomend the ATI and UVL bulbs, they scored the highest for PAR.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

For T5's to be effective you need parabolic reflectors Shaped like TEK or Ice cap units. The reflector is what makes it so effective. I have yet to see anything said about them in the negative , totaly unlike PC, however The threads I read on RC by Grimreefer support my thoughts about them. I think tit for tat T5 and MH have about same Pro's and con's. Its a matter of howmany bulbs for T5 you can stick in your hood. Good luck and hope to see some pics soon

 

[Scooterman]

Dont listen to them sid get the T5's you will be happy. The tek unit is a very good unit.
By being able to use 6 different bulbs, you will blow away the look of the single spectrum you get off a MH. I recomend the ATI and UVL bulbs, they scored the highest for PAR.

You have some PAR readings, can you tell us more, how much, what was used to test etc? Is there some documentation on this, I'd like to see, curious! Also changing 8 lamps every 6 months is ok i guess but the cost will make it like reefdaddy said tiff tat!

 

[ReeferPatt]

If you read the T5 Q&A thread on RC, the Grimreefer and a few other have taken par readings with spectrometers, when overdriven they can produce as much par as some 250w MH bulbs with better coverage. There are alot of people with very successful tanks, with sps. But you need individual reflectors to help produce the par. The other thing is there are so many choices in bulb selection to get the color you want plus the output. Some people a using a 3000k bulb to increase the red spectrum that some corals need. www.reefgeek.com carries a ton of bulbs. ATI, Giessman ect. If your going with a retro kit make sure you put some fans in you hood to help keep the bulbs cool. If they get to hot you will have about a 20 - 30% drop in par. Probably the best fixture is the Solar Flare. It has individual Ice Cap reflectors, fan cooled, with 8 bulbs. 1 660 and 1 430 ice cap ballast. www.aquariumspecialy.com carries it.

What ever you do, go with individual reflectors. You'll get the best performance that way.

my .02

 

[returnofsid]

I've actually now changed my mind about the specific T5 fixture I linked to above. If I go with T5, I'll go with the Tek T5 48" 6 bulb system from reefgeek.com. This one has the individually shaped reflector that wraps around each bulb to push more light down. I will also be going with a fixture as apposed to a retrofit kit. I don't have a canopy and don't really want to build or buy one...lol. I'll get the fixture and either hang it very near the top of tank or buy the legs that adjust from 2 1/2"-8". Probably keep it as low as possible while still having access to tank and not worrying about salt spray.

 

[Scooterman]

If you read the T5 Q&A thread on RC, the Grimreefer and a few other have taken par readings with spectrometers, when overdriven they can produce as much par as some 250w MH bulbs with better coverage.

Read that thread on RC but didn't see any actual testing other than people mentioning that it did, also the replacement is costly, if your trying to keep sps & overdriving them. I don't think the spectrometers can actually read PAR but may be wrong.

 

[thekingfish]

I've actually now changed my mind about the specific T5 fixture I linked to above. If I go with T5, I'll go with the Tek T5 48" 6 bulb system from reefgeek.com. This one has the individually shaped reflector that wraps around each bulb to push more light down. I will also be going with a fixture as apposed to a retrofit kit. I don't have a canopy and don't really want to build or buy one...lol. I'll get the fixture and either hang it very near the top of tank or buy the legs that adjust from 2 1/2"-8". Probably keep it as low as possible while still having access to tank and not worrying about salt spray.

The open top look is a good one imo.

 

[ReeferPatt]

Read that thread on RC but didn't see any actual testing other than people mentioning that it did, also the replacement is costly, if your trying to keep sps & overdriving them. I don't think the spectrometers can actually read PAR but may be wrong.

spectroradiometer, sorry about that, my bad. I started scrolling thru the thread to find the numbers, but the dang thread is about 65 pages. I've been following it since it started. The GrimReefer and Hahnmeister both have taken readings. Hahn just recently did several tests, taking readings at different depths and towards each end of a couple different tanks. Comparing them to MH bulbs. The MH bulbs had higher output in the middle areas of the tank but dropped of significantly further out to the edges. This is using only one MH bulb. In the lower kelvin bulbs the MH wins hands down. When the bulb has a higher k value it's par can be cut almost in half. Whereas the T5ho bulbs in the blue spectrum don't. T5ho's can be overdriven and hold 80% of their par at 12 mos. Some people report good performance at 18 mos.

As mentioned in another post, less heat, no chiller and a little less power usage. When it comes time to replace the bulbs, it is recommended to change out only one or two at a time so as to not shock the corals with the higher output of the new bulbs.

I posted a request to see if I can get the info. on the par readings. Sanjay also has plans in the near future to do some testing of t5's.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Spectrometers dont measure par. Par is merely a measure of the total light hitting an area.
What a spectrometer does is tell you precisely what kind of light is hitting the area. A spectrometer measures the intensity of the light at the wavelengths between 400 and 700. The data that it out puts is a graph showing what spectrum the majority of the light is comng from. for an example look at the picture on this page. http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5...aylight_T5_HO_Fluorescent_by_General_Electric The graph on that page is what you get from a spectrometer, not a PAR number.
With any flouro bulb your going to have 3 peaks. I am pretty sure that these peaks are created by the different phosphurs that are used. One will create more blue light, one more yellow, one more red. As the bulb ages so do these phosphurs. As the phosphurs age the spectral graph of the bulb will change. It is theorized that the blue part of the spectrum fades the quickest, leaving the light more on the yellow/red side. Although you may still get an acceptable PAR reading, it may be lacking the blue spectrum, and your corals wont like it.

After reading hundereds and hundereds of pages on T5's over onRC I am of the opinion that this shift does not occur under normal bulb operation. There are far too many people there that report no problems with there corals after 12+ months on there T5's for met o believe that it is true. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find anyone reporting a lack of coral growth after 9 months. Everyone who is "reporting" that is merely repeating what they read, not what they have personally found. There is only one individual there who has personally reported such findings.